Tim FerrissModify

John Arnold with Dr. Peter Attia — The Greatest Energy Trader of All Time on Lessons Learned, Walking Away from Wall Street, and Reinventing Philanthropy (#818)

2025-07-02 10:31:32

In this special episode, my friend—and fan-favorite guest—Dr. Peter Attia takes the mic as guest host. Peter sits down with legendary trader John Arnold, widely considered the greatest energy trader of all time. Today, through his foundation Arnold Ventures, John applies the same rigorous thinking to some of America’s toughest social challenges—criminal justice reform, healthcare policy, and K–12 education, to name just a few.

This interview originally aired on Peter’s excellent podcast The Drive. You can check it out at PeterAttiaMD.com, or subscribe to The Drive wherever you get your podcasts.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform.

This episode is brought to you by Vanta trusted compliance and security platform; Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating; and Wealthfront high-yield cash account.

This episode is brought to you by Vanta! Vanta automates compliance for frameworks like SOC 2, ISO 27001, and HIPAA, making it simple and fast to get enterprise-grade compliant. Just like 10,000+ other companies that rely on Vanta, my friends at Duolingo and Ramp (a sponsor of this podcast and an ultra-fast growing company) both use Vanta to handle security compliance. 

It all adds up to impressive results: companies save up to 85% of costs, get compliant in weeks instead of months, and complete security questionnaires up to 5 times faster. So check out Vanta.com/Tim to see how Vanta can help you level up your security program. My listeners, that’s you, can get $1,000 off.

---

This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront is a financial services platform that offers services to help you save and invest your money. Right now, you can earn 4.00% APY—that’s the Annual Percentage Yield—with the Wealthfront Brokerage Cash Accoount. That’s nearly 10x more interest than if you left your money in a savings account at the average bank, with savings rates at 0.42%, according to FDIC.gov, as of 05/19/2025. It takes just a few minutes to sign up, and then you’ll immediately start earning 4.00% APY from program  banks on your uninvested cash. And when new clients open an account today, they’ll get an extra $50 bonus with a deposit of $500 or more. Terms and Conditions apply.  Visit Wealthfront.com/Tim to get started.

Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA/SIPC. Wealthfront is not a bank. The APY on cash deposits as of 04/30/2025, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds in the Cash Account are swept to program banks, where they earn a variable APY. Tim receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. Tim and Wealthfront Brokerage have no other affiliation. Tim reflects his own opinions and Wealthfront does not endorse, sponsor, or promote them. See full disclosures here.

---

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I’ve suffered for decades, tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling them back on, and repeating ad nauseam. But a few years ago, I started using the Pod Cover, and it has transformed my sleep. Eight Sleep has launched their newest generation of the Pod: Pod 5 Ultra. It cools, it heats, and now it elevates, automatically. With the best temperature performance to date, Pod 5 Ultra ensures you and your partner stay cool in the heat and cozy warm in the cold. Plus, it automatically tracks your sleep time, snoring, sleep stages, and HRV, all with high precision. For example, their heart rate tracking is at an incredible 99% accuracy.

Pod 5 Ultra also introduces an adjustable Base that fits between your mattress and your bed frame to add custom positions for the best sleeping experience. It also automatically reduces your snoring when detected. Add it easily to any bed. And for full coverage, you can include the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod’s Cover to extend temperature regulation over your entire body.

And now, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show can get $350 off of the Pod 5 Ultra for a limited time! Click here to claim this deal and unlock your full potential through optimal sleep.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

Timestamps (Credit to Peter Attia’s team)

[00:00:00] Start.
[00:05:37] Peter Attia’s intro: who is John Arnold?
[00:08:38] John’s background, upbringing, and early entrepreneurial tendencies.
[00:21:16] John’s time and rise at Enron.
[00:33:40] Characteristics that made John an exceptional natural gas trader and how they translate to his philanthropic work.
[00:41:10] The collapse of Enron.
[00:46:46] The success of John’s hedge fund, and his early interest in philanthropy.
[01:02:03] The infamous 2006 trade that brought down Amaranth Advisors.
[01:08:28] John’s analytical prowess and emphasis on fundamentals.
[01:15:13] The decision to become a full-time philanthropist and the founding of Arnold Ventures.
[01:25:03] Education — John’s quest to fundamentally change K-12 education.
[01:30:36] Strategic philanthropy — preventing problems by attacking root causes and creating structural change.
[01:37:50] The criminal justice system — structural changes needed to address mass incarceration, policing practices, and recidivism.
[01:55:07] Re-imagining prisons to reduce recidivism.
[02:02:27] US health care policy — John’s focus on drug prices, and the severe consequences of not making system changes.
[02:20:00] Climate change — the bipartisan role of John’s foundation.
[02:23:52] Advice for young adults interested in philanthropy.
[02:30:52] Parting thoughts.

Show Notes — Created by Peter Attia’s Team

John’s background, upbringing, and early entrepreneurial tendencies

Who is John?

• He’s an “equal opportunity special interest pot stirrer”
• John and his foundation get major flack from both the left and the right politically (Therefore, the issues he attempts to zoom in to are ones where the left and the right are starting to come together)
• Prior to the foundation, John made his fortune as a natural gas trader

Arnold Ventures

• Arnold Ventures, the foundation founded by John and his wife Laura, is currently focusing mostly on health policy, public finance platforms, and criminal justice
• Foundation gives about 400 million away each year

“Our philanthropic intent is to give away the vast majority of our money during our lifetime.”

An entrepreneur from a young age

• John was an entrepreneur and an aspiring businessman starting as a young kid
• At 12 he mowed lawns but realized not much money and too much competition
• Started selling sports cards at age 14
• With the trading card work, he basically figured out geographical areas of arbitrage within the trading card industry and created a business out of it

“I ended up spending a couple summers just full time on this baseball card, really geographic arbitrage and information arbitrage, that I would have a sense of who the best buyer was for every product.”

Defining arbitrage—

• “I would describe arbitrage as taking advantage of price differences with little to no risk.”
• Today with the internet, a lot of that arbitrage and pricing inefficiencies have gone away or have been, what’s called in the trade, “Arbed out”

What he wanted to do after college

“I was the guy that was trying to get out of there and into the game as quickly as possible. Every day I was at college, it was one less day that I had to be in the game.”

• From a young age, John knew he wanted to be in Wall Street
• He didn’t know much about it, but he felt like it was the “biggest game around”
• The books Liar’s Poker as well as Barbarians at the Gate intensified his interest
• During college, he was focused on getting out of there and into the game as quickly as possible
• Despite not being recruited heavily, he talked his way into an interview at Enron and was offered an analyst position

John’s time and rise at Enron

• John arrived at Enron in 1995, before it was all that well-known
• Historically, Enron was a pipeline company
• The natural gas industry was regulated heavily until 1992 when it became deregulated 

What that meant to the industry:

• Previous to 1992, the pipeline was responsible for providing the merchant services to the buyer and seller
• So the producer of gas would sell to the pipeline 
• And then the pipeline would transport the gas and sell it to the customer
• It was viewed that this was negative because pipelines are natural monopolies frequently, and so the services and the cost of those services were too high
• So in 1992, they deregulate it and here is Enron as the gas merchant

In 1995, there were 2 aspects to Enron’s business:

1 – The historical pipeline business 

2 – A new “investment bank” side

• Around that time was when the decision was made to promote Jeff Skilling to the #2 position of the company
• This made sense because the company was looking to move towards the investment bank/trading business as, generally speaking, the return on equity is higher if you have fewer assets (sort of the direction of corporate America at the time)

John first job at Enron

• First job was as an analyst on the trading floor – very rare for first position
• He wasn’t trading right away, more just running spreadsheets and analytical work
• He was able to learn the business up close
• John quickly realized that a trading career was directly in line with his skillset

“I found the perfect job for my skill set as my first job. And I think that’s pretty rare, and it happened by accident. I could have very easily ended up a mergers and acquisition investment banker at Merrill Lynch, but I ended up trading commodities at a relative upstart of a company that was just the perfect spot for my skill set.” 

How John rose so quickly through Enron

• All new hires were supposed to do four 6-month rotations in different sides of the business then they go back to business school
• But they made an exception for John as he was really well liked in the natural gas group
• However, one of the traders made a big mistake on the trading floor and the group had to be dissolved
• John had the choice to go to the UK or go downstairs and work in the natural gas trading group
• While tempted to go overseas, John knew the natural gas group was the future at Enron so he chose that route

Winter of 1996—“A whole new game”

• This is when the natural gas prices “blew out” John says—It was an extremely cold winter and all the historical relationships that gas had just completely changed
• People who had spent their entire career in gas weren’t sure if they knew anything about gas anymore
• “It was a whole new game.”
• First job within the natural gas division: They put John as an assistant trader with a gentleman who had the expertise on the physical side of the business and they were told to “go figure this out”
• Around this time is when Enron became a “darling” in the industry
• The mid-level guys were being poached by competitive companies making Enron a unique environment for a smart and responsible young person to rise quickly
• By the time John was 25, he was the head natural gas trader at the largest natural gas trading company in the industry
• While John benefited greatly from this “merit-based” system of promotion, he suspects the company gave out too much responsibility and didn’t have enough control—

“I think it ended up being the downfall of the company as well, as there just wasn’t the controls on people who were given too much responsibility, too much of the company’s balance sheet to use without their adequate controls on it.”

Characteristics that made John an exceptional natural gas trader and how they translate to his philanthropic work

“The stress level was intense. I think I’m very good at handling stress, but the stress level was intense to a point of not being healthy.”

• In a given day, John was trading billions of dollars of notional value of gas
• Much of it was trying to buy at $2 and trying to sell it at $2 and a half penny for enormous volumes
• From the moment you sat down in the morning until about 4pm, it was just nonstop trading
• Food was delivered to your desk, and bathroom breaks meant running back and forth
• This non-stop stress is why traders generally have short trading careers

How do many traders destress?

• Destressing for traders usually meant drinking, partying, gambling, etc. 
• In his 20s, he gained weight and was just not at all healthy especially compared to him now 
• John gravitated away from that lifestyle in his 30s when he matured, got married, kids, etc.

Did John experience an “addiction” to the “high” of trading?

• It’s not uncommon for traders to be addicted to the rush, the high, the physiologic response that they get to a good trade
• John says he knows the feeling and saw many traders afflicted by this
• However, he felt like he wasn’t addicted to it

What made John such an exceptional trader? 

• John credits his success to two traits:
  • 1-His ability to not let emotions impact his decision making process
  • 2-He fell perfectly on the confidence spectrum (confident but not too arrogant)

Regarding emotional detachment—

• Whether he was having a great day or the worst day, you couldn’t tell by looking at him
• He instead was just “100% focused on executing the process”

⇒ There’s a saying in the investment world, “Fear and greed drives a lot of price trends in financial assets.” 

• This phrase refers to the fact that many traders are either greedy or fearful and that’s driving your behavior
• The more you can eliminate those fear and greed from the trading process, the better you get

The confidence spectrum—

• John says he fell perfectly on the confidence spectrum
• Confidence is key, but you can’t be too arrogant—arrogance has been the “destroyer of many trading careers”
• The right way to think is, “I’m confident in my view on this, but I know I might be wrong.”

How did these traits translate into John’s philanthropy work?

• John says these traits translated very well
• With his foundation they come up with plenty of theories on how to solve a complex issue
• You must have confidence in that theory, however, you must not be wedded to it because you know you could be wrong 

“Everything we’re doing in the foundation is evidence-based, but the evidence is never perfect.”

The collapse of Enron

Book about the fall of Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room 

Preceding Enron’s collapse…

• John’s trading group was wildly successful
• Yet, Enron was soon to be bankrupt
• John was so singularly focused on his job that he didn’t have much of a sense as to what was going so wrong in other divisions
• Enron, like most companies at the time, was disintermediating their business chain

Bad decisions—

• There were some bad decisions being made in those other sectors that were leading to the downfall
• In parallel, there was a culture of never being able to admit failure 
• Enron had morphed into a financial business which is completely contingent upon having the faith of your creditors (i.e., Wall Street)
• Once Wall Street loses faith in you and refuses to fund you, “the business is toast” — And that’s what happened to Enron

When did John realize his career at Enron was going to be cut short?

• John was likely the most profitable person at Enron
• But it became clear that the company was in trouble
• Enron eventually reached a deal with a JV partner (a New York bank) but John had different view on how the business should proceed and he decided to leave

The success of John’s hedge fund, and his early interest in philanthropy

When John was still at Enron…

• Many people were calling John saying they wanted to invest with him if he did his “own thing”
• When John knew Enron was collapsing, he started a fund, hired people, bought equipment, etc.
• John had plans to raise $50 million for his fund and would’ve easily had the investors to do so
• But then BOOM—the investigating into Enron breaks open and nobody knows if john was a fraud or if he was going to prison
• John started Centaurus (hedge fund) but had to settle for only $8 mil initial funding (his money plus 2 investors)

How John grew Centaurus so successfully

• After Enron scandal, about half the pipeline and electric utility merchant/trading businesses were out of business because that industry fell out of favor with Wall Street
• The market became incredibly inefficient and there was a great need for risk intermediation/risk warehousing
• It was very low risk for arbitrage type trades that shouldn’t exist in a normally functioning market that existed for that next year just because the market players had been so decimated
• This low-risk model resulted in John’s fund making $3 million in the first month, and was up 150% in 3 months
• With that success, investors became interested again which helped increase his AUM

The synergy of market arbitrage plus speculative trading:

The two strands of John’s hedge fund—

 1) Providing liquidity and getting paid for the service of warehousing some risks, and 

 2) Speculative trading – Trying to make a call on where natural gas prices were going next

• In the first few years, his business was mostly doing the low risk stuff to create the base and an upward trend in profitability
• But on top of that line of business, John started doing more and more speculative trading
• This worked well because if he was ever wrong on a market call, he wouldn’t be decimated since he was still making money on the arbitrage side of the business
• The inefficiency in the market, which created the low-risk arbitrage, made it the “perfect time to be in natural gas”

The moment John realized he’d never have to worry about money again:

• In 2002/2003, the demand was high and supply wasn’t keeping up
• John wasn’t the only trader that recognized this, however, the risk/reward was being very misvalued
• John recognized that if they were to have a very cold winter in 2002 or 2003, the gas market could experience some significant shortages and there would be corresponding price spikes
• This cold weather event was perhaps a 1 in 5 probability, but the bets were pricing them as if it was 1 in 50
• There ended up being a 2-day stretch in late February 2003 which sent prices to one of the three highest gas prices in the last 20 years
• The fund more than doubled in those two days in terms of total assets
• Afterwards, he called his mom to say, “We’re set. We have financial security now forever regardless of what happens.”

When did John first start thinking about philanthropy?

“I always recognized the limited social value of trading. I think there is a need for someone to provide risk warehousing and liquidity to markets, but trying to tell the story about how I was adding value or contributing to society was hard. And that always bothered me.”

• John began thinking about trading in his early Enron days (He was getting paid well — 100k bonus checks)
• His charitable interest gravitated towards K-12 education
• He found KIPP Charter Schools and gave them a 5-figure donation
• This was the start of his very long journey, thinking about K-12 education in the country
• But in 2002/2003, after his massive early success with his hedge fund, he was only thinking about philanthropy about 1% of the time.

When John’s hedge fund started gaining major attention:

• At some point a magazine published the top 100 traders and listed john at top 5 in making money
• This sort of broadcast to the rest of the industry that something was going on in natural gas
• This naturally brought in a bunch of new entrants in the gas market
• John made a deliberate decision keep the focus of the business narrow—Didn’t want to trade oil,  didn’t want to trade natural gas stocks or natural gas bonds, didn’t want to trade agriculture
• “I wanted to be the best in the world at North American natural gas and power trading.”
• This was a strategic move to put a natural limit as to the amount of assets that they could manage
• John’s assets under management (AUM) peaked around $6 billion—This was bordering on too big because you may be spreading yourself too thin into areas that you don’t have the deepest domain expertise

John business was all about return (not fees from investors)—

• John wasn’t in it to make fees from investors
• John was personally the largest investor in the fund 
• So he was in it for the return on the money and that’s how he pitch it to potential investors
• It was always driven by: How do I want my money managed?

The infamous 2006 trade that brought down Amaranth Advisors

Background

• Brian Hunter and Amaranth Advisors did very well in 2005 during the hurricane season
• The impact of Hurricane Katrina created a massive shortage in gas and the price of gas had one of the greatest peaks in last ~30 years

After 2005, two things happened in the industry—

1. A belief that the increasing frequency and intensity of hurricanes would damage the structure of the energy sector and natural gas sector
2. There would be a great fear amongst any trader to be short during that time period (the hurricane season)

Amaranth’s position in 2006—

• In 2005, Brian Hunter, the head trader at Amaranth, was in the long position and made tons of money when gas prices spiked after Hurricane Katrina caused massive shortages in supply
• Brian thought something similar would happen (or at least a big scare would happen) in 2006 causing the same type of move in gas prices
• However, the 2005 Katrina event sent the signal to every producer to increase supplies
• John, who had a 25% opposite position of Brian, could see that supplies were ramping up in 2006
• Despite this increase in supply, Brian continued buying more and more—so much that he distorted the relative values in that market
• The story is often told like it was Brian vs. John (John had a 25% opposite position) 
• Reality is that it was the whole market (including John) versus Brian, because Brian was such a large long position in this

So what happened in 2006?

• There was no hurricane in 2006, and prices collapsed
• Brian couldn’t hold up the prices any longer and it destroyed Amaranth
• The story is framed as if Brian and John had competing bets as to what the weather was going to do 
• However, it was actually taking a position on the more important question–supply
• John felt like even if they WERE hit with a demand shock from a weather event, the market was much better prepared to absorb the hit compared to 2005

How John thought about the situation:

• “You had this probability distribution function of the possible outcomes. And then think about, under each outcome, ‘how would I think about what fair value is of the commodity at that time?’”
• The mistake Brian made was—The market was already so mispriced to expected value that even had you had the supply shock happen, what was the upside? “We’re already priced for that.”
• Peter adds, “You realize that it was probably a bit more of an error in hubris as well, which goes back to your point about maybe being a little too confident in your ability to predict what’s going to happen.”

John’s analytical prowess and emphasis on fundamentals

John has a “third superpower”—an insatiable, bordering on pathological, obsession for knowing everything

• Peter knows the feeling
• John says his appetite for knowledge has served him well in trading and philanthropy

In his trading days…

• By being a hedge fund and not being in the physical business (dealing with customers, etc.), John says they were at an “information disadvantage”
• So when a counterparty put up an opposite trade of John’s position, he was always thinking about:
  • What are they thinking? 
  • What do they know?
  • Can I replicate as best I can, the knowledge that they have so that I can make an educated and confident decision?
• John’s team was at an information handicap (compared to say, BP) 

How did John make up for this informational disadvantage? 

• 1) Better analysis—knowing where to get third party information, having better analysis, and crafting better models that described what the past was and thus what the future is going to be
• 2) The biggest fundamental research department  — i.e., count the molecules, try to count as many molecules as you can—Where did it come from? Where did it travel? How was it consumed?

“Our advantage was that we’re going to invest in the fundamentals more than anybody else is and then overlay that with some good trading.”

3 main reasons why trading natural gas was “easier” than oil:

 1) It was this closed system —the molecules, for the most part, just stayed in North America

 2) Deregulation got the pipelines out of the business of trading

• The pipelines, which had the most fundamental information about where the gas came from and where it was going, now had to publish all this information publicly and they couldn’t trade on it 
• Compare that versus oil, Exxon can own the oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico, stick it on an Exxon ship, take it to an Exxon owned refinery and put it in Exxon gas stations. And so as an outsider, trying to figure out and track those molecules, it’s impossible.
• That’s why the best, most profitable oil traders have to be in the physical business

 3) Twice a year, there was a mechanism to get you back close to fair value

• Because nat. gas was a seasonal product, you store it during the summer getting ready for the peak winter demand which created a window of what it should be when you exit the winter
• Compare that to a tech stock today— there’s no forcing mechanism that necessarily has to get that tech stock back to one’s belief of fair value
• So with nat gas… while price could deviate from fundamental value for parts of the time of the year, twice a year, it kind of had to go back to that fair value, which was great as a fundamental trader

The decision to become a full-time philanthropist and the founding of Arnold Ventures

Deciding to focus on philanthropy

“I started thinking more about giving the money away than making more of it. That was really the signal to me that I want to be spending my time on the other side of the table and I’m physically and mentally, emotionally exhausted with trading natural gas.” 

• Met his wife, Laura, in early 2006 and got married not long after 
• They both started to really think about ‘what should we do with our lives now?’
• In 2006, 3% of his focus on philanthropy
• But by 2008, John and Laura had founded Arnold Ventures and John was putting about my 10-15% of his energy into the foundation
• This became an issue because trading takes 100% laser focus in order stay above the competition

• In 2012, John decided it’s time to shut down his hedge fund
• This was more than a decade living and breathing nothing but natural gas

A hard decision

• It was a hard decision to make, says John, but it got easier because things had changed in the market—
  • The shale revolution increased supply greatly
  • The market went from being very volatile with booms and busts, to one that was in perpetual oversupply and kind of bouncing around marginal cost to produce
• John had to give billions of dollars back to investors because the market opportunity was no longer there to the same degree

“When you’ve been playing in Vegas with the $25 table to go back down to the $5 table. It’s just not as emotionally interesting.”

Summary of factors leading to the shutdown of his hedge fund—

• Got married, had kids
• New regulations put into the business (largely due to the Brian Hunter/Amaranth episodes)
• Arbitrage and opportunity in the market became harder to find
• John began to lose the focus as his interest in the foundation was increasing

“These things came together and it still took me two years to make that call, that it’s time, it’s time to close this up and go find happiness somewhere else.”

Skills in trading that translated to philanthropy:

  1-Emotional temperament—not letting your feelings get in the way of what you’re doing

  2-Having the right amount of confidence 

• You have to be able to say, “Yeah, this is a huge and hard problem, but we should go after it.”
• But maybe not too much confidence to say, “We’re going to solve this problem no matter what.”

  3-An ability to become an expert in something in a relatively short period of time

• Peter compares John to Bill Gates, who is the ultimate example (check out the Bill Gates documentary)

Education—John’s quest to fundamentally change K-12 education

K-12 education — the first problem the foundation looked at deeply

The questions John had about K-12 education:

• Why does one school have different results from a school down the street serving a very similar population of kids?
• How do you take what the best individual schools are doing and scale that?
• What makes a school better?
  • Is it small schools? 
  • Is it better principals? 
  • Is it better teachers? 
  • Is it the curriculum? 
  • Is it technology? 
• What’s the idea that scales and creates structural change?

“[K-12] is just the most fundamental issue facing long-term health and viability of this country.”

The theory of change that drives John’s work in K-12:

The theory: Strong and robust systems of any kind have the attributes of biological evolution

• In living organisms you have,
  • Variance amongst the organisms with the differential fitness
  • There’s a different rate of survival and reproduction
  • And then inheritability of fitness
• You need to have a strong and robust system and that’s getting better over time
  • Education, generally speaking, is not that (e.g., same curriculum, the same process, the same way of hiring, of training, of trying to develop teachers)

In public education—

• For the good ideas, there’s no natural mechanism for that to grow 
• For the bad/outdated idea, there’s no mechanism for them to stop and go away
• In order to have the heritability of traits, you need the learning aspect—but public schools (or really any government monopoly) is not good at quality control and innovation in order to provide the necessary variance

Arnold Foundation’s theory is that…

• i) the school system needs to become a system of schools, and 
• ii) the natural role for government is not to be the service provider, but to be the regulator 
  • Currently, the government is filling both roles which is a problem because “no system can regulate itself”)

If this theory works…

• The parents and kids will have real choice in what type of model they want
• An immersion program
• High discipline or regular discipline, 
• An art school or other specialty, etc.
• Giving real choice to parents/kids is the “best quality control that can happen”
• The government, as the regulator, needs to make sure that all kids are served, but is largely out of the business of providing the service of education

Strategic philanthropy—preventing problems by attacking root causes and creating structural change

What’s the role of philanthropy? 

• Currently, only about 1% of the economy is philanthropy for social services or social goods
• A big question John and his foundation think about is: What’s the best use of that? 
• It can either—
  • 1) Supplement government services (typically described as charity, i.e., trying to solve today’s problems)
    • E.g., Giving money to existing programs like a food bank
  • 2) Try to get to the root cause of problems with strategic philanthropy, i.e., prevent those problems from developing tomorrow
• Both are important, but John gravitates towards the latter
• The latter allows for exploring…
  • How does the philanthropic money compliment government services to make them better?
  • What is the market failure as to why government programs are not working as well as they should?

Role for “strategic” philanthropy

• Most of the existing social non-profits are so focused on simply providing the day-to-day that they have no bandwidth for experimentation or innovation
• Strategic philanthropy can come in to explore, “How can these actors in these systems perform better?”
• Arnold Foundation spends more of it’s time looking at structural changes to the system b/c it’s scalable in a way that just providing another dollar for a program largely is not
• Strategic philanthropy requires experts and manpower to explore new ideas, old ideas, theoretical frameworks, potential second order effects of structural changes, etc.

How challenging is doing this kind of strategic philanthropy?

• Arnold Foundation has about 120 employees — “We had no desire or interest to have 120 employees 10 years ago. That was not by design. We thought giving would be easy.”
• At the beginning, John was sifting through the literature

Example, the topic like preschool:

• You see three papers that say preschool is amazing, it generates all these outcomes later in life
• Then you see one evaluation of the Head Start program that shows it doesn’t really have an effect
• As you dig deeper, you see huge arguments within this research sector about what the evidence really shows

In every area that John has researched, he finds the same thing—

• The first scan through it appears that everything works, it’s all great, writing checks there is a great way to invest money
• But as you dig deeper, it gets very frustrating because the more you study, the less you know about what worked and what didn’t

*One main insight from doing the deep digging:

1. Very few new programs worked
2. And the things that DO work are generally already part of the fabric of society, e.g., K-12 education

The question for the foundation became: What’s our role? Where could our dollars be most helpful?

John’s frustration with trying to find the “right program” to fund really led him and the foundation down the path of—How do you change and improve the system and the incentives and the rules of a system rather than what’s the next program we can fund?

The criminal justice system—structural changes needed to address mass incarceration, policing practices, and recidivism

When the criminal justice system got on John’s radar:

• Laura had a legal background and gave her a perspective on it — one of the first organizations they gave money to was the Innocence Project by Barry Scheck which got innocent men off of death row
• This got them thinking more strategically—How do we change the system so that the wrongful convictions don’t happen in the first place?
• They realized that changing the system and policies is where they wanted to spend the time—
  • Higher potential reward
  • It is harder work and the chance of success is lower
  • But the impact, if successful, is so much higher if you can improve how the system works
• The foundation spent an entire year just thinking about all the ways the inefficiencies in the system was leading to bad outcomes

“There is this natural impatience. But I think we’ve been smart enough to realize that it’s smarter to invest wisely tomorrow than do something that’s unlikely to have an impact today.”

How criminal justice system is broken:

• Peter points out three clear issues with the criminal justice system:
  • 1-There seems to be an enormous racial disparity
  • 2-There are great difficulties in appealing, even in the presence of evidence that the first trial may not have been a great trial
  • 3-Coercion is a real problem which results in people pleading guilty to something they did not do

John’s take on how we got to the current state of the criminal just system: 

• Increasing violent crime which peaked in the late 80s/early 90s
• This scary trend created a bipartisan response — crime was really destroying communities
• Everyone came together to start this tough on crime mantra
• The foundation of that was to intensify the “war on drugs” — which ended up having second and third order effects 
• Crime ended up peaking in the early ’90s
• Some of it was because of some of the policies passed, but a lot of it wasn’t
• John says the drop in crime was relatively independent of when communities adopted the new policies (across America as well as globally)
• The significant drop in crime over the past 30 years is still a bit of a mystery, says John

Fast forward to today—

• Times have clearly changed, but we still have policies that were a reaction to an environment that was very different than today
• We’ve now seen the negative impact of those policies neighborhoods, the financial costs of those policies, and the trade offs associated with some of those policies
• We arrived at a point where both Republicans and Democrats have come together trying to rethink the right way to structure all aspects of the criminal justice system—from policing and courts and prisons and recidivism

Speculating on what accounted for the reduction is crime starting in the mid-90s

What other factors could have accounted for the reduction in crime if not the increase in incarceration?

• John says the best thing he’s seen on this is a report from the Brennan Center
• The summary is that it’s hard to see any one of them being really causal in the shifting crime
• Plus the same downward trends were happening globally (without the “tough on crime” policies)
• John says “I’m not sure we’ll ever know” what the main driver of reduced crime was

Of all the mechanisms or tactics that would lead to an increase in incarceration, which of those were perhaps the most responsible for mass incarceration?

• John thinks part of it has been longer sentences and part of it has been the conviction rates
• The system is built to demand a plea bargain
• The reality is that we just don’t have the court resources (the defense attorneys, the prosecutors, the judges, etc.) to hear a vast majority of cases
• In fact, less than 5% of cases actually go in front of a judge, most of them just get pled out

How do we solve this problem?

• Incentives that have been built into the system almost coerce people to plead guilty to crimes that they may not have committed. – i.e., plea is 6 months and trial plus conviction is 20 years
• It’s really hard to see how you solve that problem without a massive infusion of resources into the courts, prosecutors, & defense attorneys) which is not where we want to be spending money 
• The solution is more likely to come from spending money on preventing crime (such as on certain social services)
• The goal would be trying to figure out how to get rid of this culture where the system can’t handle everybody going to trial

Is the role for philanthropy to try to address the questions of racism within law enforcement?

For a long time, the focus has been on reducing crime rates with no regard for the secondary effects that the criminal justice system causes on these communities and families

• ‘Family’ example—a disproportionate number of black men that go to prison leaving children without a father
• Psychological effects—Being a black man in America, especially in a low income neighborhood, comes with a psychological effect which is only worsened by an overly-aggressive police force in that community

A big dilemma: Minority communities have felt both over-policed and under policed at the same time.

• But violent crime is still a big problem and a huge cost to a community
• But most crime is committed within one’s own community
• So nobody in the community wants the police to leave entirely, there still has to be that function of deterrence 

Addressing the problem:

• The problem doesn’t get solved just by passing one new policy
• This is an issue that has developed over decades of policing techniques, and centuries of disinvestment in these communities. 
• The question is being considered: How do you both provide the public safety while not causing the damage that some policing techniques cause today?

Re-imagining prisons to reduce recidivism

Peter’s take on the prison system:

• Peter had a profound experience when visiting a prison (See episode of The Drive with former inmate Corey McCarthy)
• From that experience, Peter points out the reasons to put somebody in prison:
  • 1-To protect the public from them.
  • 2-To punish them for something they have done
  • 3-To provide them with a set of skills to reintegrate into society in a better way
    • Peter says there was virtually no effort into the rehabilitative part which virtually guarantees recidivism
• Peter wonders: Is there an opportunity for strategic philanthropy to play a role in the rehabilitative side of incarceration?

John’s response:

• It’s very hard to design effective recidivism programs AFTER someone’s come out
• The evidence is very poor that after-prison programs actually work

“The nature of prisons has to change. If you wait until the days someone’s released, that’s way too late.”

The foundation’s work on re-imagining prisons

• They have a couple projects trying to reimagine prisons 
• They are thinking through, What’s the role of prisons? 
• The struggle is that states and counties that fund this are often constrained financially—
  • They are trying to figure out how to meet today’s problem which too many people in prison 
  • And there’s very little bandwidth and money going towards improving outcomes over the long term when they HAVE to meet today’s needs
• The foundation is exploring questions like…
  • What should prisoners be doing with their day? 
  • How can we try to maximize the percent chance that they don’t come back here when they’re released? 

The ROI case

• You could certainly make an ROI case that if you invest more now you’ll save much more tomorrow
• The problem is that the pay off may not be for 5+ years
• In the private sector, they would make that investment every day
• But in the public sector, it’s on a cash accounting basis — i.e., you have to balance the books this year & you have a fixed amount of money
• That’s where the philanthropic sector can be an active player in this system is by providing the funds to experiment with different ideas and programs and then funding the high quality evaluation to see the potential ROI

The values case

• Another part of the foundations work is more about values 
• Questions like: Should we keep someone detained in jail before they’ve gone to their court date because they don’t have the money to pay bail? 
• The broader question being explored: How do we fix it so it more closely represents American values while minimizing any potential second order effects, negative second order effects?

US health care policy—John’s focus on drug prices, and the severe consequences of not making system changes

How is John thinking about health policy in America?

• John comments that this is just such a big, complex issue: “The number of things that one could work on in health policy is immense.”

So where is John trying to apply his resources?

The first area John wants to address is drug prices because it’s a topic with:

1. Very obvious flaws in the existing system
2. There were ideas that were one could conceive of being enacted on how to fix it
3. And the political window might open in the future such that there was demand by the public and thus by politicians to actually adopt some of this stuff

The foundation is focused on creating a more rational system to price pharmaceuticals that— 

1. Balances interest and balances incentives that are necessary for the private sector to do the innovation
2. Balances the financial interests of the state and the federal government that’s largely paying for a lot of this stuff, and
3. That maximizes access for the patient

The political window:

• The foundation focuses on finding issues where a political window going to open up in the future
• So when the window opens, they can have evidence-based ideas that we could present to policymakers 

For politicians to consider health care policies—

• You need ideas to present to them and say, “Here are the three things you need to do.” 
• The reality is, the health care system is so complex, it really has 20+ problems
• But “you start to lose policymakers when you hit number four”, so you really want to narrow it down as best as you can (i.e., focusing on drug pricing)

Peter’s rant on the US health care:

• Our taxes disproportionately subsidize 2 things in the world, and one is military spend, and the other is healthcare spend
• For example, we pay so much more for drugs here than our neighbors do that we in effect subsidize the cost of R&D 
• The United States is 3% of the world’s population, yet we pay 50% of the pharmaceutical revenues of the world
• The inflated prices that Americans are paying is helping and creating incentive for more medicines to be made here that then other countries get the benefit from. 
• The NIH, for example, spends so much money on the basic science that’s required to get these drugs started, and in return, the pharmaceutical companies charge us 2x-3x the prices of other countries
• You could argue that we should be getting a discount because the United States taxpayers are funding much of the basic science and the cost of developing these drugs

⇒ For more on the health care system and issues with drugs, see Peter’s interviews with Marty Makary and Katherine Eban 

Enormous health care spending—how can we change this?

• One could argue that the US health care spending is not sustainable
• We’re currently spending 15+% of GDP per year and it’s probably increasing at 5% per year in relative growth

Without the greatest sovereign default on debt, what is it going to take to change this?

• At the state level,
  • The downsides of the state having to balance a budget every year is that it can’t make the high ROI investments that it should
  • The upside is that it forces the states to consider trade offs—they have to decide where’s the highest value, and they look to save money 
• The federal government, on the other hand, without that budgetary constraint, doesn’t have to make those trade offs
  • So what happens is that any proposed legislation where somebody gets harmed will not pass, because no hard decisions want to get made
  • The ramification of that is enormous budget deficits today and a potential default on a debt in the future
  • But perhaps the most concerning part is the possibility of severe inflation

The severe consequences of inflation

• We seem to have a fiscal or monetary response to every problem, but the one problem you can’t solve from fiscal and monetary tools is inflation
• John is particularly concerned about inflation because that’s when you have to be cutting fiscal spending and increasing interest rates to try to combat inflation
• The negative repercussions of that is enormous because we are so levered with debt at household level, at the business level, at cities and states, at the federal level
• Inflation is less of a problem as long as GDP is growing faster than real inflation
• The US debt is increasing much faster than real GDP, and so the real debt is increasing and we never pay it off
• Bad things happen if interest rates rise to just 5%, much less double digits which we’ve seen before in this country

“I want to help the world, I want to solve problems, but if the answer is just shovel more money at it, that’s not a sustainable answer in my mind.”

John’s foundation is working on: How do we improve the system without spending more money?

• If you believe that there are no trade offs with how we spend our resources, then pharma prices are fine (in fact, double them, triple them)
• But that’s not what John believes, “I believe there is a trade off and that a dollar put into pharma innovation is a dollar less for everything else.”
• Other things like,
  • Other healthcare innovation (or health care services)
  • Education
  • Less recidivism
  • Etc.
• The pharma system has just been able to create this island where they don’t have to compete with anybody
  • They got their own rules, and it’s a messed up set of rules that incentivizes the wrong thing. 
  • So even within that, we’re not getting the drugs that we should be getting
  • We’re getting things like marginal oncology drugs 
  • We’re not investing in the antibiotics and vaccines, because the financial incentive isn’t there 
• “So we’re spending tons of money as a society and not even getting good returns for it.”

Optimistic about the future — Change happens slowly, then very quickly

• John remains optimistic that real changing is coming
• But admits that this process is “emotionally frustrating”… to be banging on a problem for years with little perceptible progress
• Peter compares change like this to a stone mason hitting a rock over and over—
  • There’s a bunch of tiny imperceptible cracks and then there’s one hit that splits in open
  • But it wasn’t that one hit that did it, it was the many many that came before it
• Citing two real world examples –
  • The campaign against the Don’t ask, don’t tell policy seemingly went nowhere for decades until finally getting repealed (see book by Josh Seefried)
  • Rick Doblin’s life-long work with psychedelics is close to coming to fruition 

“You just don’t have that feedback mechanism in this work that you had in the [natural gas] market and the complete opposite end of the spectrum” 

Climate change—the bipartisan role of John’s foundation

John’s high level thoughts on climate change

• It’s a problem where the downside possibilities are so enormous that it makes sense as a society for us to make the investments today to try to decrease the probability of those downside scenarios. 
• John admits that he does not know the probability of some of the truly catastrophic scenarios, but “it’s greater than zero. . .and less than 100%”
• John says that the downside is so great that society needs to make that investment

How will John’s foundation work on climate change?

• The foundation typically looks at issues and areas where there’s not much philanthropic focus
• And the climate field already has very thoughtful philanthropists who are working on this today

Where John thinks they can add value:

• In the climate change realm, most of the researchers, advocates, and funders come from the left (politically)
• But John believes this can only be solved with a bipartisan effort
• John says the democrats aren’t doing a very good job of bringing the republicans into the conversation when they do things like “put the whole Democratic platform into a climate change bill”
• John thinks the role of his foundation is to try to bring the both parties into the discussion by supporting organizations and politicians that are on the right who want to start taking steps

Advice for young adults interested in philanthropy

Regarding his own kids—

• He doesn’t want their lives to be defined by their parents, bur rather for them to have their own life experiences and create their own life
• He is discouraging them from working at the Arnold Foundation

“Whenever you have that checkbook, people look at you differently, and treat you differently. . .because there is always something that they want funded. . .If somebody’s growing up in their teens and their 20s, and is looked at by the rest of the world as a checkbook first, I think that’s a very damaging way to grow up.”

Advice to young adults with an interest in philanthropy:

• As a society, we benefit when our community around us is stronger
• Whenever we have the needs of our family taken care of, it’s human nature to start thinking about your community
• John’s general advice about giving money is to try to do it strategically and intelligently
• And by giving to your community, you are likely making a more informed gift since you have a better sense of what the needs are of your own community

The post John Arnold with Dr. Peter Attia — The Greatest Energy Trader of All Time on Lessons Learned, Walking Away from Wall Street, and Reinventing Philanthropy (#818) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.

4-Hour Workweek Success Stories — Charlie Houpert on Building “Charisma on Command” to 10M+ Subscribers, From Charging $10 for Seminars to Making Millions, Living in Brazil, Critical Early Decisions, and The Secret to Freedom (#817)

2025-06-25 21:44:26

“Do I choose myself in the face of the world offering me all of this temptation to be something else?”
— Charlie Houpert

Charlie Houpert (@charliehoupert) is the co-founder of Charisma on Command, a company that helps people develop confidence, charisma, and strong social skills. Originally launched as a 4-Hour Workweek-inspired “muse,” it has since grown into one of the largest platforms for social skills and confidence training, with more than 10 million YouTube subscribers worldwide and more than a billion views across its content in six languages. His flagship course, Charisma University, has guided more than 30,000 members through practical steps to become more magnetic.

Charlie was once voted “Most Likely to Break Out of His Shell” and began studying charisma to overcome his own social anxiety. He now explores the deeper roots of confidence through archetypal psychology, embodiment practices, and more.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube here. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by Patagonia’s call-to-action to protect America’s public lands. Go to Patagonia.com/Tim to learn more and act now.

The episode is also brought to you by Monarch Money’s all-in-one financial tool to help you track, budget, plan, and do more with your money and by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 1B+ users.

This message is brought to you by Patagonia. I’m always asked by listeners what helps me reset, feel grounded, recover from setbacks, or simply feel at peace. Without a doubt, it’s going into nature, usually with my pup Molly. For many millions of Americans, myself included, our national-park system is the best place to do just that.  Our public lands cover nearly a third of our country’s landmass. With more than 433 national-park sites, there’s a ton to explore, whether you’re fishing, hiking, or just camping with family.

And the best thing about our parks? As Americans, we collectively own them. This means we can visit and enjoy them any time we want.  For more than a century, our government has protected our public lands by holding them in a public trust. But it’s becoming harder and less safe for us to access these awe-inspiring places. 

Congress is preparing to vote on a bill that would force the sale of millions of acres of public lands to, among other things, fund tax breaks for billionaires. If approved, the bill could trigger the largest single sale of national public lands in modern history. 

Please join me and thousands of other Americans who are speaking up to protect our public lands. Visit patagonia.com/Tim to learn more.

---

This episode is brought to you by Monarch Money! Traditional budgeting apps can help, but they don’t compare to the complete financial command center you get with this episode’s sponsor, Monarch Money. Monarch is like your own personal CFO, giving you full visibility and control so you can stop merely earning and start growing.

Monarch was named The Wall Street Journal’s Best Budgeting App of 2025, and it’s the top-recommended personal finance app by users and experts, with more than 30,000 5-star reviews. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code TIM at monarchmoney.com/Tim for half off your first year.

---

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs. Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer.

Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 1 billion professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim.

---

Want to hear another episode with someone who understands social dynamics and influenced Charlie’s entrepreneurial path? Listen to my conversation with bestselling author Neil Strauss, in which we discussed his creative process, conducting engaging interviews, overcoming writer’s block, maximizing creative output, and much more.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Charlie Houpert:

Charisma on Command | Charisma University | Dropping In Podcast | Improv & Dragons | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram | LinkedIn

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Companies, Organizations, and Brands

• Charisma on Command: a personal development company and YouTube channel focused on enhancing charisma and communication skills through online courses and content.
• Skillshare: an online learning platform offering thousands of creative and business courses taught by industry experts.
• TrepStar: an on-demand media fulfillment service specializing in short-run CD, DVD, and USB manufacturing and shipping.
• Chipotle: a fast-casual Mexican restaurant chain known for customizable burritos, bowls, and tacos made with responsibly sourced ingredients.
• Airbnb: a global online marketplace connecting travelers with hosts offering unique accommodations and experiences.
• Google (Adwords): Google’s online advertising platform, now called Google Ads, that enables businesses to display ads across Google’s network.
• SamCart: an e-commerce platform designed specifically for selling digital products with conversion-optimized checkout experiences and upselling features.
• Marvel: a multimedia entertainment company famous for its superhero franchises, comic books, and blockbuster film universe.
• Lexus: Toyota’s luxury vehicle division known for premium cars, SUVs, and hybrid technology with emphasis on craftsmanship and reliability.
• Patek Philippe: a prestigious Swiss luxury watch manufacturer renowned for creating some of the world’s most expensive and collectible timepieces.
• Boeing: an American multinational aerospace corporation that designs, manufactures, and sells commercial airplanes, defense systems, and space technology.
• Whole Foods: an upscale grocery chain specializing in organic and natural products, known for high-quality foods and health-conscious shopping experience.

Blogs, Websites, and Online Platforms

• KickAss Academy: the original domain name for Charlie’s personal development blog and business before rebranding to Charisma on Command.
• Reddit: a social news aggregation and discussion platform where users can share content and engage in community discussions across thousands of topics.
• Clarity.fm: an on-demand consulting platform that connects entrepreneurs with industry experts for paid phone consultations, featuring advisors like Mark Cuban and Eric Ries.
• WordPress: the world’s most popular content management system, powering over 40% of websites with flexible themes and plugins for building any type of site.
• vBulletin: a commercial forum software package that enables communities to create feature-rich discussion boards with advanced moderation and customization tools.
• The Last Psychiatrist: an influential anonymous blog by psychiatrist Dr. Chris Ballas that offered penetrating cultural criticism and psychological analysis from 2007-2014.
• Cracked: a humor website known for its comedic articles, lists, and videos that blend entertainment with surprising insights and historical facts.

Courses and Programs

• Charisma University: Charlie’s flagship online course teaching practical charisma and communication skills through step-by-step training modules, exercises, and real-world application techniques.
• Marketing Step-by-Step: Eben Pagan’s comprehensive entrepreneurial marketing course covering psychology-driven strategies for customer acquisition, conversion, and business growth.
• Art of Accomplishment: Joe Hudson’s transformational coaching program blending neuroscience, psychology, and spiritual practices to help high-performers break through limiting patterns and emotional barriers.

Books

• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss
• The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists by Neil Strauss
• I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell by Tucker Max
• Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown
• Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini
• The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem: The Definitive Work on Self-Esteem by the Leading Pioneer in the Field by Nathaniel Branden
• The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran
• Running Lean: Iterate from Plan A to a Plan That Works by Ash Maurya
• How to Win Friends and Influence People: Updated For the Next Generation of Leaders by Dale Carnegie
• The 80/20 Principle: The Secret to Achieving More with Less by Richard Koch
• Who: The A Method for Hiring by Geoff Smart and Randy Street
• Entrepreneur Magazine’s Young Millionaires: Inspiring Stories to Ignite Your Entrepreneurial Dreams by Rieva Lesonsky
• History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides
• Tested Advertising Methods by John Caples
• Joint Ventures: From Mediocrity to Millions by Jay Abraham (PDF)
• Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvon Chouinard
• Losing My Virginity: How I Survived, Had Fun, and Made a Fortune Doing Business My Way by Richard Branson
• The Angels Knocking on the Tavern Door: Thirty Poems of Hafez by Hafez

Movies, TV Shows, and Media

• Inception: Christopher Nolan’s mind-bending heist thriller about extracting and planting ideas through shared dreaming, featuring layered dream sequences within dreams and Leonardo DiCaprio’s reality-questioning performance.
• Casino Royale (2006): the James Bond reboot featuring an iconic eight-minute parkour chase sequence with freerunner Sébastien Foucan that inspired Charlie’s first business idea for parkour training DVDs.
• Game of Thrones: HBO’s fantasy epic whose complex characters like Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister became perfect subjects for Charlie’s “fame-jacking” YouTube strategy, borrowing existing audience attention.
• The Tim Ferriss Experiment: My reality TV show where I attempted to master various skills in record time, including a particularly cringe-worthy episode about dating and cold approach techniques.
• True Detective: the philosophical crime drama that was referenced in one of The Last Psychiatrist‘s characteristically penetrating blog post titles, blending pop culture with psychological analysis.
• Improv & Dragons: Charlie’s own YouTube series combining improvisational comedy with Dungeons & Dragons gameplay, showcasing his evolution from consumer to creator of entertaining content.

People

• Neil Strauss: author of The Game, a controversial exploration of pickup artist culture that inadvertently became a masterclass in social psychology and persuasion techniques.
• Neville Medhora: a copywriter and entrepreneur who founded Copywriting Course after helping AppSumo achieve their highest sales days through psychological email marketing.
• Tony Robbins: legendary motivational speaker and life coach known for transforming human potential through neurolinguistic programming and peak performance strategies.
• Tucker Max: bestselling author of I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell and master of provocative personal branding who provided Charlie crucial early feedback on his business positioning.
• Eben Pagan: marketing strategist and entrepreneur who created the “Marketing Step-by-Step” course that influenced Charlie’s rebranding to Charisma on Command, known for alliterative branding techniques.
• David DeAngelo: Eben Pagan’s pseudonym under which he wrote Double Your Dating, demonstrating early personal branding strategies in the dating advice industry.
• Ryan Holiday: bestselling author and marketing expert who was working as Tucker Max’s research assistant when I first encountered Tucker’s unconventional approach.
• Brian Chesky: co-founder and CEO of Airbnb, renowned for his philosophy of “doing things that don’t scale” in the early stages of building disruptive businesses.
• Clay Collins: online course creator who developed influential frameworks for pre-selling courses before creating them, providing Charlie with strategic product launch methodologies.
• Avicii: Swedish DJ and electronic music producer whose live performance Charlie witnessed during his transformational first visit to Las Vegas.
• Bill Clinton: 42nd President of the United States whose masterful eye contact techniques in political debates became the subject of one of Charlie’s breakthrough YouTube videos.
• Greg McKeown: author of Essentialism, advocating for the disciplined pursuit of less but better through systematic prioritization and elimination strategies.
• Herbie: fictional character from Greg McKeown’s Essentialism representing the bottleneck principle – that improving the slowest part of any system dramatically improves overall performance.
• Donald Trump: businessman and 45th President whose communication style Charlie analyzed in a viral 2016 video predicting his electoral success, which tripled Charlie’s business.
• Scott Adams: creator of the Dilbert comic strip and master persuader who also predicted Trump’s victory early, demonstrating advanced understanding of cognitive biases.
• Conor McGregor: Irish UFC fighter whose psychological warfare tactics and charismatic self-promotion became frequent subjects of Charlie’s behavioral analysis videos.
• Robert Downey Jr.: Academy Award-nominated actor whose quick wit and magnetic interview presence provided rich material for Charlie’s charisma breakdowns.
• Gary Vaynerchuk: entrepreneur and social media expert who popularized the “jab, jab, jab, right hook” content strategy of providing value before making sales pitches.
• Mr. Beast: YouTube phenomenon whose data-driven approach to viral content creation and psychological thumbnail optimization represents modern digital storytelling mastery.
• David Ogilvy: legendary advertising executive known as the “Father of Advertising” whose timeless principles of persuasion continue influencing modern marketing.
• Keanu Reeves: the perfect example of an introvert who exudes confidence despite being quiet and somewhat reclusive.
• Brené Brown: research professor and author whose insights on vulnerability and courage include the wisdom that healthy relationships are never truly 50/50.
• Thucydides: ancient Greek historian whose philosophy inspired Charlie’s tattoo: “The secret to freedom is courage” — representing the intersection of wisdom and personal transformation.
• Joe Hudson: executive coach and creator of Art of Accomplishment who guided Charlie through the complex emotional and strategic challenges of buying out his business co-founder.
• Sam Altman: CEO of OpenAI who publicly endorsed Joe Hudson’s work through social media, validating the psychological frameworks Charlie was learning.
• Nathaniel Branden: psychologist and author of The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem whose sentence completion exercises helped Charlie excavate limiting beliefs and unconscious patterns.
• Jay Abraham: business strategist and “old-school” marketing coach who challenged Charlie to create content worthy of being consumed by the people who had influenced him.
• Kahlil Gibran: Lebanese-American writer and philosopher, author of The Prophet, whose poetic wisdom on human nature continues influencing spiritual and personal development.
• Dale Carnegie: author of the timeless classic How to Win Friends and Influence People, establishing foundational principles for human relationship dynamics and social influence.
• Hafez: Persian lyrical poet from Shiraz, considered one of the greatest masters of the ghazal form, whose mystical and romantic verses exploring love, wine, and spiritual yearning have influenced literature for over 600 years.
• Martha Beck: life coach and author known for integrating ancient wisdom with modern psychological techniques.
• Brandon Sanderson: prolific fantasy author whose systematic approach to world-building and storytelling demonstrates the intersection of creativity and methodical execution.
• Richard Koch: author of The 80/20 Principle, advocating for identifying the vital few inputs that generate the majority of meaningful outputs in any system.
• Yvon Chouinard: founder of Patagonia and author of Let My People Go Surfing, demonstrating how authentic values can drive both business success and environmental activism.
• Ricardo Semler: Brazilian CEO who revolutionized corporate culture through radical workplace democracy, inspiring alternative approaches to business leadership and organizational design.
• Richard Branson: founder of Virgin Group whose scrappy, unconventional approach to starting an airline exemplifies entrepreneurial resourcefulness and bold risk-taking.
• Diana Chapman: executive coach whose interview on this show explored advanced techniques for integrating emotional intelligence with rational decision-making.
• Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung: pioneering psychoanalysts whose exploration of the unconscious mind inspired Charlie’s Dungeons & Dragons character “Sigmund,” blending psychology with creative expression.
• Charlie Hoehn: entrepreneur, 4x New York Times bestselling editor, co-founder of Author.Inc, and my former Director of Special Projects.

Places and Venues

• Washington, DC: the capital of the United States, known for its federal government, historic monuments, and vibrant political and cultural scene.
• H Street (in DC): a historic corridor in Northeast Washington DC known for its diverse dining scene, nightlife, and cultural venues stretching from Union Station to the Anacostia River.
• New York City, NY: the most populous city in the United States, renowned as a global center for finance, arts, fashion, and culture.
• Lower East Side, NYC: a historic Manhattan neighborhood known for its immigrant heritage, trendy restaurants, bars, and mix of affordable and luxury housing.
• Brazil: the largest country in South America, famous for its Amazon rainforest, vibrant culture, beaches, and cities like Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.
• Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: Brazil’s iconic coastal city famous for its stunning beaches, Christ the Redeemer statue, Carnival celebration, and dramatic mountain landscapes.
• Floripa (Florianópolis), Brazil: the capital of Santa Catarina state, known as the “Magic Island” for its beautiful beaches, technology hub, and high quality of life.
• Las Vegas, NV: the entertainment capital of the world, famous for its casinos, shows, nightlife, and extravagant themed hotels along the Las Vegas Strip.
• Vancouver, Canada: a major West Coast seaport city known for its natural beauty, mild climate, diverse culture, and proximity to mountains and ocean.
• Colombia: a South American country known for its diverse landscapes from Caribbean coastlines to Amazon rainforest, vibrant cities, and rich cultural heritage.
• Pennsylvania: a Mid-Atlantic U.S. state known for its historical significance, including Philadelphia’s Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell.
• Los Angeles, CA: the second-largest city in the United States, famous for Hollywood, entertainment industry, beaches, and diverse neighborhoods.
• XS (Nightclub in Las Vegas): an upscale nightclub at Encore Las Vegas known for its luxurious indoor-outdoor design, celebrity DJ performances, and high-end bottle service.
• UNLV (University of Nevada, Las Vegas): a public research university known for its hospitality, business, and engineering programs, as well as its Runnin’ Rebels basketball team.
• South by Southwest (SXSW): an annual conglomeration of interactive media, music, and film festivals and conferences held in Austin, Texas.
• UT Austin: the University of Texas at Austin, a top-tier public research university known for its academics, athletics, and vibrant campus culture.
• San Francisco / Bay Area: a northern California region known for its tech industry, iconic Golden Gate Bridge, diverse culture, and steep hills.

Concepts, Ideas, and Frameworks

• Management Consulting: a professional service where experts analyze organizational problems and provide strategic solutions to improve business performance and efficiency.
• The Muse: concept from The 4-Hour Workweek for creating an automated, low-maintenance business that generates passive income while requiring minimal ongoing involvement.
• Scratch-Your-Own-Itch: the entrepreneurial philosophy of solving a problem you personally experience, ensuring product-market fit by building something you genuinely want and need.
• Moonlighting: the practice of working a side business or project while maintaining full-time employment, allowing entrepreneurs to test ideas with reduced financial risk.
• Burn the Ships: a commitment strategy inspired by historical military tactics, meaning to eliminate all options for retreat and force complete dedication to a new venture.
• Fear-Setting: My systematic exercise for defining worst-case scenarios, prevention strategies, and recovery plans to overcome decision paralysis and take calculated risks.
• The Game: Neil Strauss’ exploration of pickup artist culture and social dynamics, revealing psychological techniques for attraction and social influence.
• 10 out of 10 Upside: the component of fear-setting that focuses on envisioning and quantifying the best possible outcomes of taking action on a decision.
• Fame-Jacking: Charlie’s term for his YouTube strategy of creating content analyzing famous personalities to attract their fans and leverage existing audience interest.
• Tripwire: an online marketing strategy using a low-cost, high-value initial product to convert prospects into paying customers and establish a buying relationship.
• Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook: Gary Vaynerchuk’s content marketing philosophy of providing value repeatedly (jabs) before making sales pitches (right hooks) to build trust and engagement.
• The Herbie Parable: a story from Essentialism about identifying and addressing the primary bottleneck in any system to improve overall performance and efficiency.
• Audience Capture: the phenomenon where content creators become trapped by their audience’s expectations, leading to creative stagnation and burnout as they chase engagement over authenticity.
• 50/50 Partnership Split: the commonly problematic business arrangement where two partners share equal ownership despite rarely contributing equally, often leading to disputes and power struggles.
• Sentence Completion Exercises: a psychological technique from The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem using open-ended prompts to uncover subconscious thoughts and limiting beliefs.
• Shotgun Deal: a business partnership buyout mechanism where one partner names a price and the other must either accept or buy them out at the same price, forcing fair valuation.
• Mimetic Desire: René Girard’s theory that humans copy the desires of others rather than developing authentic wants, creating cycles of competition and social imitation.

Relevant Resources

• BC-X Parkour Philosophy of Continuous Learning | Charlie Houpert
• Fear-Setting: The Most Valuable Exercise I Do Every Month | Tim Ferriss
• Step 1 for Living a Kickass Life: Stop “Just Being Yourself” | KickAss Academy
• I Hired a Pickup Artist to Help Me Find a Girlfriend | The Tim Ferriss Experiment #7
• The Secret Of Bill Clinton’s Charisma | Charisma on Command
• The Listener by James Christensen | The Collection Shop
• Why Trump Will SMASH Hillary | Charisma on Command
• How To Build Unwavering Confidence | Charisma on Command
• Ranking the Most Charismatic Players In Game of Thrones | Charisma on Command
• How to Make a Disrespectful Person Look Insecure for Insulting You | Charisma on Command
• How to Look Extremely Confident (Even if You’re Quiet) | Charisma on Command
• Brené Brown — Striving versus Self-Acceptance, Saving Marriages, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #409
• The Maintenance of Certification Exam as Fetish | The Last Psychiatrist
• Ten Extra Seconds Would Have Saved True Detective’s Finale | The Last Psychiatrist
• Advertising’s Collateral Damage | The Last Psychiatrist
• If You’re Watching, It’s For You | The Last Psychiatrist
• Joe Hudson: How to be More Emotionally Intelligent (Without Trying so Hard) | Twitter
• Filling the Void: Thoughts on Learning and Karma | Tim Ferriss
• Martha Beck — The Amazing and Brutal Results of Zero Lies for 365 Days, How to Do a Beginner “Integrity Cleanse,” Lessons from Lion Trackers, and Novel Tactics for Reducing Anxiety | The Tim Ferriss Show #732
• Brandon Sanderson on Building a Fiction Empire, Creating $40M+ Kickstarter Campaigns, Unbreakable Habits, The Art of World-Building, and The Science of Magic Systems | The Tim Ferriss Show #794
• Diana Chapman — How to Get Unstuck, Do “The Work,” Take Radical Responsibility, and Reduce Drama in Your Life | The Tim Ferriss Show #536

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:06:44] Charlie meets the boogeyman (me).
• [00:10:11] Why defaulting to management consulting after college felt like daily self-betrayal.
• [00:13:21] Leaping into parkour training via DVD as a first business attempt.
• [00:15:45] Moonlighting vs. burning-ships entrepreneurship.
• [00:16:54] Negotiating remote work with a 90% raise.
• [00:21:22] Charlie moves to New York and kicks off KickAss Academy.
• [00:22:16] Airbnb survival tactics while living in a 396 sq. ft. apartment.
• [00:23:26] Using the fear-setting exercise and other disaster-mitigation strategies.
• [00:26:11] Charlie’s first blog post and crossing the publishing Rubicon.
• [00:28:26] How Charlie’s first in-person class prompted an accidental business model.
• [00:34:21] 10 go-getters make an ambitious move to Brazil.
• [00:32:14] The daily growth whiteboard system.
• [00:37:58] How a harsh Tucker Max consultation galvanized the rebranding to Charisma on Command.
• [00:44:39] From financial downturn to pre-selling a course for $12,500.
• [00:50:44] Finally making enough money to chase summer in six-to-eight-month increments.
• [00:52:00] Enjoying the sustainable benefits of creating timeless content.
• [00:54:05] How Bill Clinton seduced 7,000 people into following Charlie on YouTube.
• [00:55:46] How Greg McKeown’s Essentialism helped solve Charlie’s “Herbie” problem.
• [00:58:26] Evolving funnel flow and fame-jacking.
• [01:03:46] YouTube algorithm changes, short-form content, and maintaining audience trust for the long term.
• [01:10:58] Why I still create this podcast.
• [01:19:30] The dangers of succumbing entirely to audience expectation over authenticity.
• [01:21:42] The catalysts that led to time off, an ayahuasca retreat, and a seven-year transformation process.
• [01:30:26] Making the transition from 50/50 partner to sole owner.
• [01:35:16] Recommended reading: Six Pillars of Self-Esteem by Nathaniel Branden
• [01:37:32] The influence of The Last Psychiatrist blog.
• [01:41:46] Jay Abraham coaching: “Make it good enough for Tim Ferriss.”
• [01:43:52] How testimonials added a 4x conversion lift.
• [01:44:31] Coming to an agreement with the co-founder.
• [01:47:20] Joe Hudson and the Art of Accomplishment.
• [01:51:57] Why I stand by The 4-Hour Workweek without further revision, warts and all.
• [01:55:06] Exercising gratitude even when receiving praise is difficult.
• [01:59:15] Relationship with earlier work: video vs. writing.
• [02:02:05] Don’t miss “Filling the Void.”
• [02:03:56] More recommended reading.
• [02:06:43] Improv & Dragons.
• [02:08:06] Charlie’s billboard: “Don’t think, feel.”
• [02:08:57] Parting thoughts.

MORE CHARLIE HOUPERT QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Do I choose myself in the face of the world offering me all of this temptation to be something else?”
— Charlie Houpert

“If you don’t believe in it fully, you’re going to sell it with hesitancy.”
— Charlie Houpert

“Don’t think, feel. I know that’s counterintuitive to a lot of people, but lately, that’s been my guiding principle is feel my heart, feel my gut, think from my mind, and try to find some union of the three to move forward.”
— Charlie Houpert

“When you start trading your beliefs for cash or approval, you’re just sending a signal that, ‘I can’t be relied on to be myself and be safe and earn.'”
— Charlie Houpert

The post 4-Hour Workweek Success Stories — Charlie Houpert on Building “Charisma on Command” to 10M+ Subscribers, From Charging $10 for Seminars to Making Millions, Living in Brazil, Critical Early Decisions, and The Secret to Freedom (#817) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.

Nsima Inyang, Mutant and Movement Coach — True Athleticism at Any Age, Microdosing Movement, “Rope Flow” as a Key Unlock, Why Sleds and Sandbags Matter, and Much More (#816)

2025-06-19 22:32:58

“I look at rope flow as its own internal martial art.”
— Nsima Inyang

Nsima Inyang (@nsimainyang) is a strength athlete and movement coach and co-host of Mark Bell’s Power Project, one of the top fitness podcasts in the world. He is also one of the most freakishly athletic humans I’ve ever met. He’s a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, a professional natural bodybuilder (placed top five in the world), and an elite-level powerlifter (750-plus-pound deadlift, etc.)—but what sets him apart is how he blends all those worlds with unconventional training tools like kettlebells, maces, sandbags, and rope flow. After nearly 20 years of lifting and martial arts, Nsima has developed a unique way of helping people build muscle, move better, and stay pain-free for life.

Nsima is also the founder of The Stronger Human, a growing online community focused on strength, movement, and resilience. With hundreds of thousands following his YouTube content, Nsima’s mission is simple: help people feel powerful in their bodies again—without relying solely on machines, cookie-cutter workouts, or the fitness industry’s outdated rules.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by Pique premium pu’er tea crystals; Momentous high-quality supplements; and Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating.

This episode is brought to you by Pique! I first learned about Pique through my friends Dr. Peter Attia and Kevin Rose, and now Pique’s fermented pu’er tea crystals have become my daily go-to. I often kickstart my mornings with their Pu’er Green Tea and Pu’er Black Tea, and I alternate between the two. This rare type of naturally fermented tea is more concentrated in polyphenol antioxidants than any other tea. It supports focus and mental clarity, healthy digestion, metabolism, and a healthy immune system. Their crystals are cold extracted, using only wild-harvested leaves from 250-year-old tea trees. Plus, they triple toxin screen for heavy metals, pesticides, and toxic mold—contaminants commonly found in tea. I also use the crystals for iced tea, which saves a ton of time and hassle. 

​For you, my dear listeners, Pique is offering 20% off—valid for the lifetime of your subscription—plus a free Starter Kit, which includes a rechargeable frother and glass beaker. This all comes with a 90-day satisfaction guarantee, so it’s risk-free. Check it out. Go to PiqueLife.com/Tim. The discount is automatically applied at checkout.

---

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I’ve suffered for decades, tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling them back on, and repeating ad nauseam. But a few years ago, I started using the Pod Cover, and it has transformed my sleep. Eight Sleep has launched their newest generation of the Pod: Pod 5 Ultra. It cools, it heats, and now it elevates, automatically. With the best temperature performance to date, Pod 5 Ultra ensures you and your partner stay cool in the heat and cozy warm in the cold. Plus, it automatically tracks your sleep time, snoring, sleep stages, and HRV, all with high precision. For example, their heart rate tracking is at an incredible 99% accuracy.

Pod 5 Ultra also introduces an adjustable Base that fits between your mattress and your bed frame to add custom positions for the best sleeping experience. It also automatically reduces your snoring when detected. Add it easily to any bed. And for full coverage, you can include the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod’s Cover to extend temperature regulation over your entire body.

And now, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show can get $350 off of the Pod 5 Ultra for a limited time! Click here to claim this deal and unlock your full potential through optimal sleep.

---

This episode is brought to you by Momentous high-quality supplements! Momentous offers high-quality supplements and products across a broad spectrum of categories, and I’ve been testing their products for months now. I’ve been using their magnesium threonate, apigenin, and L-theanine daily, all of which have helped me improve the onset, quality, and duration of my sleep. I’ve also been using Momentous creatine, and while it certainly helps physical performance, including poundage or wattage in sports, I use it primarily for mental performance (short-term memory, etc.).

Their products are third-party tested (Informed-Sport and/or NSF certified), so you can trust that what is on the label is in the bottle and nothing else. Use code TIM at checkout and enjoy 35% off your first subscription order or 14% off your first one-time purchase! And not to worry, my non-US friends, Momentous ships internationally and has you covered. 

---

Want to hear another episode with someone who can fix what’s broken? Listen to my conversation with movement guru and physical therapist Dr. Kelly Starrett, in which we discussed training for range of motion as we age, the “airport scanner shoulder test,” balance training for everyone (not just seniors), breathing techniques for back pain, the “Tower of London” spinal mobility exercise, getting 800 grams of fruits and vegetables daily, the “never do nothing” philosophy, and much more.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Nsima Inyang:

The Stronger Human Skool Community | The Stronger Human Store | The Model Health Show | YouTube | TikTok | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Referenced Videos

• The Lie of Traditional Strength Training: Why I Moved On (with Serge Gracovetsky Movement Analysis) | YouTube
• Conan Sword Swing Demonstration | YouTube
• Swinging Rope Close to Body | Vimeo
• Underhand Pattern Movement | YouTube
• Overhand Pattern Movement | YouTube
• Kelly Starrett Movement Demonstration | Instagram
• The Stronger Human Community | Skool
• The Movement Practice That Changes You | YouTube
• Bill Maeda | Instagram
• How to Build a Bulletproof Groin | YouTube
• Sandbag Squat Demonstration | Vimeo
• Nsima “The Natty Professor” Inyang — Reebok Record Breakers 2 | YouTube
• The World’s Heaviest Total 1200KG (New WR) | YouTube
• Ed Coan — 901lb Deadlift @ 220lb + 920lb Attempt (Better Quality) Raw | YouTube
• Sandbag Training Footage | Vimeo
• Jefferson Curls Exercise | YouTube
• Cossack Squat with Regressions | YouTube
• Cossack Squat with Sandbag | YouTube
• Copenhagen Plank Exercise | YouTube
• Russian Hopak Dance | YouTube
• ATG Split Squat with Regressions | YouTube
• Jefferson Curl and Regressions | YouTube
• Hunkerin Stool | The Stronger Human Store
• Pike Pulses | YouTube
• Sled Training B-Roll | YouTube
• Body Lever Demonstration | YouTube
• Soft Tissue Recovery Collection | The Stronger Human Store
• Med Ball Pressure Technique | Vimeo
• The Ultimate Nordic Curl Progression (From Beginner to Beast) | YouTube
• Throwback to the Original Nordic Hamstring Challenge: Tyreek Hill | YouTube
• Nsima Inyang Beats Tyreek Hill’s Record on Nordic Leg Curls | YouTube
• How to Build Strong Bones (What Nobody Tells You) | YouTube
• Jumping: Why You’ve Lost the Ability (and How to Get It Back) | YouTube

Workout Movements & Practices

Lifts/Strength Training

• The Big Three: Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift: the foundational powerlifting movements that form the basis of most strength training programs and competitions.
• Squat Variations: Back Squat, Box Squat, Sandbag Squat, Sandbag Box Squat, Cossack Squat, Cossack Squat with Sandbag, ATG Split Squat, Front Foot Elevated Split Squat: diverse squatting movements including the ATG (ass-to-grass) split squat popularized by Ben Patrick for knee health and strength.
• Deadlift Variations: Conventional Deadlift, Sumo Deadlift, Staggered Stance Deadlift, Sandbag Deadlift, Stiff-Legged Deadlifts: posterior chain strengthening movements targeting different muscle groups and movement patterns.
• Presses: Bench Press, Shoulder Press: upper body pushing movements fundamental to strength development and athletic performance.
• Pulls: Pull-Up, Row: upper body pulling movements essential for balanced strength development and postural health.
• Lunges: Forward Lunge, Lateral Lunge: unilateral leg exercises that improve balance, stability, and functional movement patterns.
• Other: Jefferson Curl, Jefferson Curl and Regressions, Bicep Curl, Nordic Curl Progressions and Regressions, Nordic Hamstring Curl, Pike Pulses, Copenhagen Plank: specialized movements including the Jefferson curl for spinal mobility, Nordic hamstring curl for injury prevention, and Copenhagen plank for adductor strength.

Movement Practices

• Rope Flow: Overhand Race and Chase, Underhand Race and Chase, Propeller (or Dragon): a movement practice involving flowing rope patterns that improve coordination, mobility, and rotational strength while promoting mindful movement.
• Kettlebell Work: Two-Handed Kettlebell Swing, Kettlebell Juggling, Pendulum Swing: ballistic exercises using kettlebells to develop power, coordination, and full-body strength through dynamic movements.
• Calisthenics/Gymnastics: Hand Balancing, Ring Turnout Push-Ups, Scapular Pull-Ups, Iron Cross, Planche, Muscle-Ups, Dips, Standing Backflip: bodyweight strength and skill movements that develop exceptional upper body strength, coordination, and body control.
• Cardio/Endurance: Running (Cross Country), Stationary Biking, Sled Push/Pull, Swimming, Jumping Rope, Rebounding: cardiovascular exercises that improve heart health, endurance, and overall fitness through various modalities.
• Mobility/Flexibility/Soft Tissue: Myofascial Release, Foam Rolling, Gua Sha, Static Stretching, Dead Hangs: recovery and mobility techniques that improve tissue quality, range of motion, and movement preparation.
• Other: Jazzercise, Tango, Muay Thai (Pad Work), Parkour, AcroYoga, Tai Chi, Bagua: diverse movement practices including Muay Thai pad work for striking technique and cardio, AcroYoga for partner-based strength and trust, and Bagua for circular movement and martial arts flow.

Specialized Movement Details

• Nordic Hamstring Curl: an eccentric hamstring strengthening exercise that has been shown to reduce hamstring injury rates by up to 51% in athletes.
• Copenhagen Plank: a side plank variation that targets the often-neglected adductor muscles, reducing groin injury risk and improving hip stability.
• AcroYoga: a physical practice combining yoga, acrobatics, and healing arts that develops trust, communication, and strength through partner-based movements.
• Baguazhang: an internal Chinese martial art characterized by circular walking patterns and flowing movements based on Taoist philosophy and the Eight Trigrams.

Workout Tools & Equipment

General

• Barbell: a long metal bar used in weightlifting to hold plates for exercises like squats, deadlifts, and bench presses.
• Plates: cast iron or rubber weight plates that attach to barbells and dumbbells to add resistance.
• Kettlebell: a cast iron or steel ball with a handle used for ballistic exercises combining cardiovascular, strength, and flexibility training.
• Sandbag: a weighted bag filled with sand used for functional training that challenges stability and grip strength.
• Dumbbells: short bars with weights on both ends designed for single-hand use in strength training and muscle isolation exercises.
• Torque TANK M3 Push Sled: a training device pushed or pulled across surfaces to build power, speed, and conditioning with magnetic resistance technology.
• Rings (Gymnastics Rings): suspended rings used for upper body strength training, requiring significant core stability and coordination.
• Resistance Bands: elastic bands that provide variable resistance for strength training, rehabilitation, and mobility work.
• Rebounder: a small trampoline with bungee cords used for low-impact cardiovascular exercise and lymphatic drainage.
• Medicine Ball: a weighted ball used for plyometric exercises, core training, and functional movement patterns.

Specialized

Ropes for Rope Flow

• RMT Rope: a specialized flow rope by WeckMethod designed for rotational movement training to develop mobility, coordination, and core strength.

Grip Tools

• Gripper: hand strengthening tools that improve grip strength and forearm development through resistance training.
• Rice Bucket: a container filled with rice used for hand and finger strengthening exercises and rehabilitation.

Soft Tissue Tools

• Foam Roller: a cylindrical tool used for self-myofascial release to improve tissue quality and reduce muscle tension.
• Body Lever (“The Nutcracker”): a lever-based self-massage tool for applying targeted pressure to trigger points.
• Gua Sha Tool (Or a Butter Knife as a Substitute): a traditional Chinese medicine tool used for scraping therapy to improve circulation and release tension.
• Supernova: a specialized myofascial release tool designed for deep tissue work and trigger point therapy.
• Peanut: a dual-ball massage tool shaped like a peanut for spinal alignment and bilateral muscle release.
• Tune Up Fitness Balls: therapy balls created by Jill Miller for self-massage, trigger point release, and myofascial therapy.
• Theragun: a percussive therapy device that delivers rapid pulses to muscles for pain relief and recovery.
• Hitachi Magic Wand: a powerful vibrating massager originally designed for personal use but adapted for muscle therapy.
• Rubz Ball: a textured massage ball designed for trigger point therapy and myofascial release.
• Acupressure Mat (Nayoya, Shakti, Bed of Nails mentioned as brands): a mat covered with plastic spikes that applies pressure to trigger acupressure points for pain relief and relaxation.
• Back Buddy/Thera Cane: S-shaped self-massage tools with multiple knobs for reaching trigger points throughout the back and body.

Lifting Gear

• Powerlifting Suit: a tight-fitting supportive garment worn in equipped powerlifting competitions to assist with heavy lifting.
• Weight Belt: a supportive belt worn around the waist during heavy lifting to increase intra-abdominal pressure and spinal stability.
• Sling Shot: an elastic bench press training aid that allows for overloading while reinforcing proper form and reducing shoulder stress.
• Shake Strap: a knee support accessory designed for powerlifting and strength training.

Other

• Safety Squat Yoke: a specialized barbell with a yoke design that positions weight forward and includes handles for improved squat mechanics.
• Hunkerin Stool: a specialized stool designed for improving deep squat positioning and mobility.
• Sorinex Nordic Hamstring Curl Machine: a specialized piece of equipment designed for performing Nordic hamstring curls and glute-ham raises.
• ATG Device for Wrist Work: specialized equipment from Athletic Truth Group for wrist strengthening and mobility work.
• Abrahangs/Hangboards: training boards with various holds used by climbers to develop finger and grip strength.

People

• Mark Bell: American world record-holding powerlifter, inventor of the Sling Shot, and founder of Super Training Gym who has squatted over 1,080 lbs and benched 854 lbs.
• Jerzy Gregorek: Polish-American four-time World Weightlifting Champion and co-creator of The Happy Body Program who immigrated from Poland as a political refugee in 1986.
• Serge Gracovetsky: Canadian engineer and researcher who developed the spinal engine theory and authored influential works on human biomechanics and spine function.
• David Weck: fitness innovator and inventor of the BOSU Ball who created Rope Flow and founded WeckMethod, focusing on rotational movement training and both-sides-utilized training principles.
• Bill Maeda: strength coach and powerlifter associated with Mark Bell’s Super Training Gym, known for his expertise in powerlifting technique and training methods.
• Ben Patrick: basketball player turned trainer who overcame chronic knee injuries and founded Athletic Truth Group, popularizing knees-over-toes training methods for knee health and athletic performance.
• Charlie Chaplin: an English comic actor, filmmaker, and composer who rose to fame in the era of silent film. He became a worldwide icon through his screen persona, the Tramp, whose gait is not something you should try to emulate.
• Kelly Starrett: Doctor of Physical Therapy, CrossFit trainer, and New York Times bestselling author of Becoming a Supple Leopard who co-founded The Ready State for mobility and movement training.
• Pavel Tsatsouline: Belarusian-American fitness instructor and former Soviet Special Forces trainer who introduced Russian kettlebell training to the West and founded StrongFirst, the “school of strength.”
• Colton Engelbrecht: competitive powerlifter known for his strong deadlift and involvement in the powerlifting community.
• Ed Coan: widely regarded as the greatest powerlifter of all time, holding 71 world records and achieving a legendary 2,463 lb total at 220 lb bodyweight.
• Tyreek Hill: elite NFL wide receiver known for his exceptional speed and agility, currently playing for the Miami Dolphins.
• Chris Sommer: former US national team gymnastics coach who developed Gymnastic Bodies training system focusing on bodyweight strength and flexibility.
• Andrii Bondarenko: professional acrobat and hand balancing specialist who has performed with Cirque du Soleil and teaches advanced calisthenics.
• Jake Kaminski: American Olympic archer and YouTube educator who competed in the 2016 Rio Olympics and creates archery instructional content.
• Emil Abrahamson: fitness enthusiast and movement coach known for his creative approach to bodyweight training and calisthenics.
• Allyson Felix: American sprinter and the most decorated female track and field athlete in Olympic history with 11 Olympic medals.
• Michael Phelps: American swimmer and the most successful Olympian of all time with 28 Olympic medals, including 23 golds.
• Wilt Chamberlain: legendary NBA center who scored 100 points in a single game and dominated basketball in the 1960s and 1970s.
• Kevin Rose: entrepreneur and investor who founded Digg and co-founded Revision3, now a partner at True Ventures focusing on early-stage technology investments.
• Jake Muise: CEO of Maui Nui Venison, a company focused on sustainable hunting and providing grass-fed venison while supporting Hawaiian ecosystem restoration.
• Chris Chamberlin: chief coach at WeckMethod and master instructor of rotational movement training, working closely with David Weck to develop and teach their training systems.
• Graham Tuttle: advocate for natural running and barefoot sprinting who promotes minimalist footwear and natural movement patterns.
• Cory Schlesinger: strength and conditioning coach who serves as Director of Performance for the NBA’s Phoenix Suns basketball team.
• Ian Danney: certified strength and conditioning specialist who works with athletes and fitness enthusiasts to improve performance and movement quality.
• Brian Bulaya: close friend of Nsima Inyang, involved in the fitness and strength training community.
• Owen Carr: filmmaker and writer who collaborates with Nsima Inyang on creative film projects, including co-writing the 2025 short film Death Knows My Name.
• Dustin Moskovitz: American entrepreneur who co-founded Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg and later founded Asana, a work management platform.
• Jason Nemer: co-founder of AcroYoga, combining yoga, acrobatics, and Thai massage into a unique practice for partners and groups.
• Jill Miller: corrective exercise specialist who created the Yoga Tune Up method and Roll Model self-massage techniques using specialized therapy balls.
• Arnold Schwarzenegger: Austrian-American bodybuilder, actor, and former Governor of California who won Mr. Olympia seven times and starred in iconic action films.
• Conan O’Brien: American television host, comedian, and writer known for hosting late-night talk shows and his distinctive comedic style.
• Muhammad Ali: legendary American boxer and activist who was three-time heavyweight champion of the world and known for his social and political activism.
• Fred Astaire: American dancer, singer, and actor considered one of the greatest dancers in film history, known for his elegant style and innovative choreography.
• Jack Kornfield: American Buddhist teacher and author who co-founded the Insight Meditation Society and has written extensively on mindfulness and meditation.
• Suzanne Somers: American actress, author, and businesswoman known for her roles in television and her advocacy for alternative health and wellness approaches.

Products, Brands, and Companies

• Mark Bell’s Power Project (Podcast/Brand): a fitness podcast and brand covering powerlifting, nutrition, life coaching, and motivation, hosted by Mark Bell (inventor of the Sling Shot), Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza.
• Maui Nui Venison: a company that produces wild-harvested Axis deer venison from Hawaii, ethically managing invasive deer populations while providing nutrient-dense, stress-free meat with exceptional protein density.
• The Ready State (formerly MobilityWOD, Kelly Starrett’s company): a mobility and movement education platform founded by Dr. Kelly Starrett, DPT, offering online coaching, courses, and tools for pain relief, injury prevention, and athletic performance optimization.
• Rogue Fitness: a leading manufacturer and distributor of strength and conditioning equipment, serving as an official sponsor of the CrossFit Games, Arnold Classic, and USA Weightlifting, providing everything from barbells and racks to complete gym packages.
• Torque Fitness: a fitness equipment manufacturer known for their innovative TANK series of magnetic resistance sleds that can be used on any surface indoors or outdoors, providing variable resistance training without weight plates.
• Freedom Strength: a company specializing in high-quality sandbags for strength training, functional fitness, strongman training, and unconventional training, offering products ranging from 50-400 lbs with built-in filling systems.
• Bellicon: a German manufacturer of premium mini trampolines (rebounders) featuring ultra-elastic bungee cords instead of metal springs, designed for low-impact fitness, rehabilitation, and wellness training.
• Sorinex: a family-owned strength training equipment company (since 1980) that is the most sought-after brand for professional teams, colleges, high schools, military bases, and home gyms, known for innovative custom solutions and high-quality manufacturing.
• Athletic Truth Group (ATG): Ben Patrick’s (known as “Knees Over Toes Guy”) online coaching platform that focuses on bulletproofing knees and improving athletic performance through specialized exercises and movement patterns.
• Tune Up Fitness: Jill Miller’s company offering self-care fitness programs including Yoga Tune Up, The Roll Model Method, and Body by Breath, focusing on self-myofascial release, mobility, and pain management through movement and massage balls.
• Nayoya: a brand offering acupressure mats and pillow sets with 6,210 pressure points designed for back pain relief, stress reduction, and improved circulation, available primarily through Amazon and retail partners.
• Shakti: a company producing handmade acupressure mats in India with thousands of sharp spikes designed to stimulate acupoints, offering three intensity levels and focusing on stress relief, muscle relaxation, and improved sleep.
• Bed of Nails: the original premium acupressure mat company featuring 8,820 acupuncture pressure points with 42 non-toxic nails per plate, designed for back pain relief, relaxation, and stress reduction using eco-friendly materials.
• Armaid: a self-massage tool specifically designed for treating arm, wrist, hand, elbow, bicep, and tricep issues, helping reduce tendonitis and repetitive strain injuries through trigger point therapy and deep tissue massage techniques.
• Cirque du Soleil: a world-renowned entertainment company that completely reinvented circus arts, known for their theatrical, character-driven performances without animals, featuring breathtaking acrobatics, stunning visuals, and immersive storytelling across touring shows and permanent Las Vegas productions.

Books

• The Spinal Engine by Serge Gracovetsky
• Becoming a Supple Leopard: The Ultimate Guide to Resolving Pain, Preventing Injury, and Optimizing Athletic Performance by Kelly Starrett
• COAN the Man, the Myth, the Method: The Life, Times, and Training of the Greatest Powerlifter of All-Time by Marty Gallagher
• The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire by David Deida
• Dinosaur Training: Lost Secrets of Strength and Development by Brooks D. Kubik

Documentaries/TV Shows

• Conan O’Brien Must Go: an Emmy Award-winning travel series where former late-night talk show host Conan O’Brien travels the world to meet fans he previously connected with on his podcast, experiencing local cultures with his signature comedic style.
• The Tim Ferriss Experiment: a reality series where bestselling author Tim Ferriss attempts to master notoriously difficult skills in record time, with the parkour episode featuring him learning ninja-like movement techniques including running up walls and navigating urban environments with speed and grace.

Anatomical/Physiological Terms

Planes of Movement

• Sagittal Plane: a vertical plane that divides the body into left and right halves, where forward and backward movements occur.
• Frontal (Coronal) Plane: a vertical plane that divides the body into front and back halves, where side-to-side movements occur.
• Transverse Plane: a horizontal plane that divides the body into upper and lower halves, where rotational movements occur.

Muscles/Body Parts

• Quadratus Lumborum (QL): a deep posterior abdominal wall muscle that stabilizes the lumbar spine and assists with lateral flexion and extension.
• External Obliques: the largest and most superficial abdominal muscle that assists with trunk flexion, lateral flexion, and contralateral rotation.
• Glutes: the group of three muscles (gluteus maximus, medius, and minimus) that form the buttocks and control hip movement and stability.
• Adductors: a group of muscles on the inner thigh that move the leg toward the body’s midline and stabilize the pelvis.
• Hamstrings: a group of three muscles on the back of the thigh that flex the knee and extend the hip joint.
• Quads: the four-muscle group on the front of the thigh that extends the knee and flexes the hip joint.
• Calves: the muscles on the back of the lower leg, primarily the gastrocnemius and soleus, that plantar flex the foot and assist with knee flexion.
• Scapula: the triangular shoulder blade bone that provides attachment points for muscles and allows arm movement at the shoulder joint.
• Lats: the large, flat muscles of the back that adduct, extend, and internally rotate the arm at the shoulder joint.
• Biceps: the two-headed muscle on the front of the upper arm that flexes the elbow and supinates the forearm.
• IT Band: the iliotibial band, a thick connective tissue structure that runs along the outer thigh from hip to knee, providing lateral knee stability.
• Vastus Lateralis: the largest of the quadriceps muscles, located on the outer thigh, that extends the knee and stabilizes the patella.

Concepts

• Time Under Tension: a training method that involves slowing down exercise movements to increase the duration muscles are under strain, potentially enhancing muscle growth.
• Breathing: the process of respiration, with proper diaphragmatic breathing being essential for core stability and optimal exercise performance.
• Neutral Spine: the natural alignment of the spine maintaining its three curves (cervical, thoracic, lumbar) to minimize stress and optimize function.
• Spinal Engine: a biomechanical concept describing how the spine generates and transfers power through rotational movement patterns during locomotion.
• Contralateral Movement: movement patterns where opposite sides of the body work together, such as left arm with right leg during walking.
• Figure Eight Rotation: a three-dimensional spinal movement pattern that combines rotation, lateral flexion, and extension/flexion in a figure-eight motion.
• Disassociation (Upper/Lower Body): the ability to move the upper and lower body independently while maintaining core stability and proper alignment.
• Valsalva Maneuver: a breathing technique involving forced exhalation against a closed airway to increase intra-abdominal pressure and spinal stability.
• Intra-Abdominal Pressure: the pressure within the abdominal cavity that provides core stability and supports the spine during movement and lifting.
• Unilateral/Bilateral Movement: exercises performed with one limb (unilateral) versus both limbs simultaneously (bilateral), affecting balance, coordination, and strength development.
• Axial Loading: forces applied along the long axis of the spine, typically during weight-bearing activities, that compress the vertebrae and intervertebral discs.
• Butt Wink: the posterior tilting of the pelvis and rounding of the lower back that occurs at the bottom of a squat due to limited hip mobility.
• Hyperlordosis: an excessive inward curvature of the lumbar spine that can cause lower back pain and postural dysfunction.
• Dorsiflexion: the upward movement of the foot at the ankle joint, bringing the toes closer to the shin, important for walking and squatting mechanics.
• Sarcopenia: the age-related loss of muscle mass and strength that typically begins in the third decade of life and accelerates with aging.
• Bone Density: the amount of mineral content in bone tissue, which affects bone strength and fracture risk, influenced by weight-bearing exercise and nutrition.

Concrete Numbers/Statistics

Nsima’s Lifts (Last Meet)

• Squat: 622 lbs.
• Bench: 396 lbs (missed 405 lbs).
• Deadlift: 755 lbs.
• Total: 1,758 lbs.
• Attempts: 8 out of 9.

Nsima’s Lifts (Gym)

• Squat: 645 lbs.
• Deadlift: 775 lbs.

Deadlift Working Sets: 495 lbs, 585+ lbs for triples, doubles, singles.

Colton Engelbrecht’s Lifts (in kilograms)

• Squat: 470 kg (~1,036 lbs)
• Bench: 260 kg (~573 lbs)
• Deadlift: 470 kg (~1,036 lbs)
• Total: ~2,650 lbs at 275 lbs bodyweight, at 22 years old.

Nordic Curls

• Tyreek Hill: 10 reps (mentioned as previous record).
• Nsima Inyang: 15 reps (mentioned as beating the record).
• World Record (mentioned): ~25 reps by a lighter individual.

Jerzy Gregorek’s Trainee: stiff-legged deadlifts with 315 lbs off an elevated platform after having fused vertebrae.

Tim’s Cossack Squat: with a 70 or 80-pound kettlebell.

Tim’s Back Squat (past): ~400 lbs for a set of 10.

Nsima’s Mom’s Age: 67 years old.

Nsima’s Grandmother’s Age: Lived to 100.

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:07:57] Defining powerlifting and Nsima’s elite totals.
• [00:10:30] Nsima’s first video that grabbed my attention.
• [00:11:26] Serge Gracovetsky and The Spinal Engine.
• [00:12:18] How Nsima avoids the distinctive plane-bound movement of many bodybuilders.
• [00:16:45] My tango struggles and coping with the “waist of a chicken.”
• [00:18:12] Intro to rope flow and David Weck.
• [00:20:15] Rope flow benefits, mechanics, and efficacy as an internal martial art.
• [00:35:21] Minimum effective dose rope flow.
• [00:37:37] Rope flow equipment and costs.
• [00:39:31] Bill Maeda and movement as daily practice.
• [00:42:38] How my three years of chronic pain and movement limitations might have been solved by breathing properly.
• [00:48:53] Lower body training: unilateral before bilateral, sandbags vs. barbells.
• [00:52:29] Box squats and safety: managing compression sensitivity and range of motion.
• [00:58:37] Set rep programming for non-elite powerlifters.
• [01:05:12] Eschew the monotonous. Embrace the exercise that inspires you.
• [01:09:39] Caution: don’t train your way into adopting a sub-optimal gait.
• [01:12:04] Sumo deadlifting technique, Colton Engelbrecht, and Nsima’s meaty hands.
• [01:20:49] Ed Coan: the greatest powerlifter and his anatomical advantages.
• [01:24:31] Staggered stance deadlifts: alternative approach relating to natural movement patterns.
• [01:26:08] Bang-for-buck exercises: kettlebell swings and sandbag training benefits.
• [01:29:54] Cossack squats and adductor training: addressing weak links in movement.
• [01:33:27] Ankle mobility, Ben Patrick, and ATG methods.
• [01:38:18] How regression solved Nsima’s chronic knee injury pain.
• [01:40:19] “Scale it down” philosophy: the importance of ego-free progression.
• [01:47:37] Microdosing movement: small daily doses vs. intensive sessions.
• [01:52:12] Placing equipment strategically for daily use.
• [01:58:41] Calisthenics and body weight strength: why barbells don’t equal body control.
• [02:05:27] Rock climbing inspiration: 70-year-olds outperforming younger athletes.
• [02:08:20] Non-negotiable lifts: sled work as the foundation movement.
• [02:21:42] Kelly Starrett and soft tissue work fundamentals.
• [02:26:28] Self-massage tools and techniques: from Gua Sha to Body Lever to tennis balls.
• [02:33:38] Evidence-based fitness limitations: not waiting for papers to validate effective practices.
• [02:38:13] Nightly protocols, acupressure, and Andrii Bondarenko.
• [02:45:17] Learning to heal yourself: developing internal reference points for soft tissue work.
• [02:46:15] Back buddies and medicine balls.
• [02:49:11] Nordic curls challenge: beating Tyreek Hill’s record through systematic progression.
• [02:55:26] Bone density fundamentals: compression, tension, impact, and rotation stressors.
• [02:58:02] Jumping and rebounding: why we stop jumping and how to regress back to it.
• [03:06:02] What Nsima hopes to convey to his audience online and where he can be found.
• [03:07:53] Gratitude: how this podcast influenced Nsima’s learning journey from age 20.
• [03:09:00] Micro-progressions, sustainable movement practice, and parting thoughts.

MORE NSIMA INYANG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“I look at rope flow as its own, internal martial art.”
— Nsima Inyang

“I’ve had people that are in the Stronger Human community that, literally, after day one, they’re finding that they have better balance walking up the steps. And these were people in their fifties and sixties.”
— Nsima Inyang

“The thing that I would want to get you doing is, first, to make sure that you learn how to breathe while doing everything.”
— Nsima Inyang

“If you want to just get yourself a rope from Home Depot and cut it and make a rope, that’s fine. You can work that. You can even work with an exercise band you might have at home.”
— Nsima Inyang

“Many aspects of evidence-based fitness is that there’s a waiting game to wait for a paper to tell you something works that’s probably been done for centuries in many different cultures for a long time.”
— Nsima Inyang

The post Nsima Inyang, Mutant and Movement Coach — True Athleticism at Any Age, Microdosing Movement, “Rope Flow” as a Key Unlock, Why Sleds and Sandbags Matter, and Much More (#816) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.

Chris Hutchins, Deal Master — Helping Tim Burn 15M+ Miles and Points, Flipping Costco Gold Into Five-Star Trips, Flying to Japan for $222, Tech Tools and Tricks, and Avoiding The Optimizer’s Curse (#815)

2025-06-12 02:15:47

“There’s something fun about knowing you kind of ‘got one’ over the system.”
— Chris Hutchins

Chris Hutchins is the creator and host of All the Hacks, a podcast that helps people upgrade their life, money, and travel. He previously founded Grove (acquired by Wealthfront) and Milk (acquired by Google), led New Product Strategy at Wealthfront, and was a Partner at Google Ventures.

Most importantly, he is the person Kevin Rose and I call if we want to figure how to get a better deal on just about anything in the world or if we just want to learn about his latest hijinks doing things like getting $200 flights to Japan, running gold pseudo-arbitrage at retail, or booking dirt-cheap trips to Bora Bora. We cover all three and more in this conversation.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement; Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business; and Ramp easy-to-use corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, and more.

This episode is brought to you by Ramp! Ramp is corporate card- and spend-management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp has already saved more than 25,000 customers—including other podcast sponsors like Shopify and Eight Sleep—more than 10 million hours and more than $1 billion through better financial management of their corporate spending.

With Ramp, you’re able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting, allowing you to close your books 8x faster on average. Your employees will no longer need to spend hours submitting expense reports. In less than 15 minutes, you can get started issuing virtual and physical cards and making payments, whether you have 5 employees or 5,000. Businesses that use Ramp save an average of 5% on total card spending and related expenses in the first year. And now, you can get $250 when you join Ramp. Just go to ramp.com/Tim.

---

This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

I have always admired AG1’s commitment to improving one product over many years, which is why I am excited about their latest upgrade: AG1 Next Gen. It’s the same—but improved—single-scoop, once-a-day product to support your mental clarity, immune health, and energy. Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health.

---

This episode is brought to you by Shopify! Shopify is one of my favorite platforms and one of my favorite companies. Shopify is designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big business. In no time flat, you can have a great-looking online store that brings your ideas to life, and you can have the tools to manage your day-to-day and drive sales. No coding or design experience required.

Go to shopify.com/Tim to sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period. It’s a great deal for a great service, so I encourage you to check it out. Take your business to the next level today by visiting shopify.com/Tim.

---

Want to hear the last time Chris came on the show to help our audience’s aspiring podcasters get started on the right foot? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed contingency plans for inevitable technical SNAFUs, gear we use, pros and cons of recording a podcast on video, prioritizing good guests over well-known guests, the magic of recording long and editing liberally for fixing imperfect sessions, the painful but positive effects of soliciting feedback, prep tips, how to be of the best service to yourself and your audience, and much more.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Chris Hutchins:

All the Hacks

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Online Tools & Resources

• All the Hacks: Chris’ primary website for his podcast and resources.
• Annual Credit Report: the official, government-authorized website for free credit reports.
• AwardTool: a tool for searching for award flights using points and miles.
• Booking.com: online travel agency for booking accommodations, flights, etc.
• Bureau of Labor Statistics: US government agency providing economic data, including consumer spending.
• Pure: a marketplace for gold and other collectibles.
• Credit Karma: a website and app offering free credit scores and reports.
• Expedia: online travel agency.
• Google Flights: a flight search engine.
• Miles4Migrants: defunct program that used donated points to fly migrants to safety.
• Points Path: a browser extension for Google Flights that shows points redemption options.
• PointsYeah: a tool for searching award flights, featuring a “Daydream Explorer.”
• Rooms.aero: a tool for searching hotel award availability.
• Seats.aero: a tool for searching award flight availability, often presented in a spreadsheet-like format.
• Apple Pay: mobile payment service by Apple.
• ChatGPT: AI language model.
• Pepper: a gift card app upgraded to an AI personal shopper.

Books

• Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life by Bill Perkins
• Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending by Elizabeth Dunn and Michael Norton
• From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life by Arthur C. Brooks
• The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat-Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss
• The 4-Hour Chef: The Simple Path to Cooking Like a Pro, Learning Anything, and Living the Good Life by Timothy Ferriss
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life by Morgan Housel
• The Man Who Quit Money by Mark Sundeen
• The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness by Morgan Housel
• The 5 Types of Wealth: A Transformative Guide to Design Your Dream Life by Sahil Bloom
• The Wealth Ladder: Proven Strategies for Every Step of Your Financial Life by Nick Maggiulli

Financial Institutions & Services

• Amex (American Express): an American bank holding company and multinational financial services corporation that specializes in payment cards.
• Aetna: a major American health insurance company that provides medical, pharmaceutical, dental, behavioral health, and long-term care benefits.
• Bank of America: one of the largest banks in the United States, offering consumer and commercial banking, wealth management, and investment services.
• Capital One: an American bank holding company specializing in credit cards, auto loans, banking, and savings accounts.
• Charles Schwab: a major American multinational financial services company offering brokerage, banking, and financial advisory services.
• Citibank: the consumer division of Citigroup, one of the largest banks in the world, providing retail banking services globally.
• Fidelity: a multinational financial services corporation offering investment management, retirement planning, portfolio guidance, and brokerage services.
• MasterCard: a multinational financial services corporation that operates a global payment network for electronic payments.
• Merrill Lynch: a wealth management division of Bank of America providing investment, insurance, and retirement planning services.
• Morgan Stanley: an American multinational investment bank and financial services company offering securities, asset management, and wealth management.
• PAMP: a Swiss precious metals refining company and one of the world’s leading bullion brands for gold, silver, platinum, and palladium products.
• Robinhood: a commission-free trading platform that allows users to invest in stocks, ETFs, options, and cryptocurrencies through a mobile app.
• Square: a financial services and payment processing company (now part of Block, Inc.) that provides payment solutions for businesses and individuals.
• Stripe: an online payment processing platform that enables businesses to accept payments over the internet and manage online transactions.
• US Bank: the fifth-largest commercial bank in the United States, offering banking, investment, mortgage, trust, and payment services.
• Visa: a multinational financial services corporation that facilitates electronic funds transfers through its payment network worldwide.
• Wealthfront: an automated investment service (robo-advisor) that provides portfolio management, financial planning, and cash management services.
• Wells Fargo: a major American multinational financial services company offering banking, investment, mortgage, and consumer finance services.

Airlines & Airline Alliances

• Air Canada: Canada’s flag carrier and largest airline, offering domestic and international flights with hubs in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal.
• Air France: the flag carrier of France and a founding member of the SkyTeam alliance, operating from its main hub at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris.
• Alaska Airlines: a major American airline based in Seattle, known for its extensive West Coast network and strong customer service reputation.
• ANA (All Nippon Airways): Japan’s largest airline and a Star Alliance member, renowned for its exceptional service quality and extensive domestic and international network.
• American Airlines: one of the largest airlines in the world and a founding member of the Oneworld alliance, with major hubs across the United States.
• Delta Air Lines: a major American airline and founding member of the SkyTeam alliance, with its largest hub at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.
• Emirates: the flag carrier of the United Arab Emirates based in Dubai, known for its luxury service and extensive international network connecting six continents.
• Japan Airlines: Japan’s flag carrier and a Oneworld alliance member, offering domestic and international flights with a focus on premium service and hospitality.
• JetBlue: a low-cost American airline known for its customer service, free Wi-Fi, and comfortable seating on domestic and select international routes.
• Lufthansa: Germany’s flag carrier and a founding member of the Star Alliance, operating from major hubs in Frankfurt and Munich.
• Oneworld Alliance: a global airline alliance founded in 1999, comprising major carriers like American Airlines, British Airways, and Cathay Pacific.
• SkyTeam Alliance: a global airline alliance founded in 2000, including member airlines such as Delta, Air France-KLM, and Korean Air.
• Southwest Airlines: a major American low-cost airline known for its point-to-point service model, free checked bags, and no change fees policy.
• Star Alliance: the world’s largest global airline alliance founded in 1997, with member airlines including United, Lufthansa, and Singapore Airlines.
• TAP Air Portugal: Portugal’s flag carrier and a Star Alliance member, serving as a gateway between Europe, Africa, and the Americas from its Lisbon hub.
• United Airlines: a major American airline and founding member of the Star Alliance, with significant hubs in Chicago, Denver, Houston, and San Francisco.

Hotels & Hospitality Brands

• Cap Rocat (Majorca): a luxury fortress hotel in Mallorca, Spain, converted from a 19th-century military fortress offering exclusive accommodations with Mediterranean views.
• Conrad Hotels & Resorts: Hilton’s luxury hotel brand offering sophisticated accommodations and personalized service in major business and leisure destinations worldwide.
• Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts: a Canadian luxury hotel and resort company known for exceptional service, elegant accommodations, and properties in premier destinations globally.
• Hilton Hotels & Resorts: a global hospitality company and flagship brand offering full-service hotels, resorts, and suites with comprehensive amenities for business and leisure travelers.
• Hyatt Hotels Corporation: an American multinational hospitality company operating luxury, premium, and select service hotels and resorts worldwide with various brand portfolios.
• Marriott Bonvoy: Marriott International’s loyalty program and hotel portfolio, encompassing 30+ brands from luxury to extended-stay properties across the globe.
• Miraval Resorts: a collection of luxury wellness resorts focused on mindful living, spa treatments, fitness, and holistic wellness experiences in scenic destinations.
• Nobu: a luxury lifestyle brand combining world-class hospitality with the culinary expertise of Chef Nobu Matsuhisa, offering hotels and restaurants worldwide.
• Small Luxury Hotels of the World (SLH): a collection of more than 520 independent luxury hotels worldwide, each offering unique character and exceptional personalized service.
• Waldorf Astoria Hotels & Resorts: Hilton’s ultra-luxury hotel brand providing iconic accommodations and legendary service in the world’s most sought-after destinations.

Retail & Other Brands

• Amazon: the world’s largest e-commerce and cloud computing company, offering everything from retail products to digital services and logistics solutions.
• Amazon Fresh: Amazon’s online and physical grocery delivery service providing fresh produce, pantry items, and household essentials with same-day or next-day delivery.
• Apple: a multinational technology company known for innovative consumer electronics, software, and digital services including iPhone, Mac, iPad, and Apple Watch.
• Costco: a membership-based warehouse club offering bulk quantities of groceries, electronics, and household items at discounted prices to members.
• Dick’s Sporting Goods: a leading American sporting goods retailer offering athletic equipment, apparel, and footwear for various sports and outdoor activities.
• FedEx: a multinational courier delivery and logistics company providing express shipping, ground delivery, freight, and supply chain management services worldwide.
• Goodwill Industries: a nonprofit organization operating thrift stores that sell donated goods to fund job training, employment placement, and community programs.
• Healthy Choice: a food brand owned by Conagra Brands, specializing in frozen meals, soups, and snacks marketed as healthier alternatives with reduced sodium and calories.
• Lowe’s: a major American home improvement retailer offering tools, appliances, building materials, and services for home renovation and maintenance projects.
• Spotify: a Swedish music streaming platform providing access to millions of songs, podcasts, and playlists with both free and premium subscription options.
• US Mint (United States Mint): the official government agency responsible for producing and distributing coins, commemorative coins, and precious metal products for the United States.
• Whole Foods Market: an upscale grocery chain owned by Amazon, specializing in organic, natural, and high-quality foods with a focus on health and sustainability.

Credit Cards & Memberships

• Amex Business Gold Card: a premium business credit card offering 4x points on top spending categories and valuable business benefits with flexible payment options.
• Amex Business Platinum Card: American Express’s flagship business credit card providing premium travel benefits, airport lounge access, and substantial rewards for business expenses.
• Amex Gold Card: a premium personal credit card offering 4x points on dining and groceries, plus valuable dining and travel credits for cardholders.
• Amex Platinum Card: American Express’s flagship personal credit card featuring luxury travel benefits, airport lounge access, hotel elite status, and premium concierge services.
• Bank of America Premium Rewards Card: a premium travel rewards credit card offering bonus points on travel and dining, with enhanced benefits for Preferred Rewards members.
• Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards / Travel Rewards Card: cash back and travel rewards cards that offer enhanced earning rates and benefits when paired with Bank of America’s Preferred Rewards program.
• Capital One Spark Cash Card: a straightforward business credit card offering unlimited 2% cash back on all purchases with no spending categories or caps.
• Capital One Venture Card: a travel rewards credit card offering 2x miles on every purchase with flexible redemption options and travel benefits.
• Capital One Venture X Business Card: a premium business travel rewards card offering enhanced earning rates, travel credits, and Priority Pass lounge access for business travelers.
• Capital One Venture X Card: Capital One’s flagship travel rewards card featuring premium travel benefits, annual travel credits, and Priority Pass lounge access.
• Chase Freedom / Freedom Flex Cards: popular cash back credit cards offering rotating 5% bonus categories and flat-rate cash back on everyday purchases.
• Chase Ink Business Preferred Card: a premium business credit card offering 3x points on select business categories and valuable Ultimate Rewards earning potential.
• Chase Sapphire Preferred Card: a popular travel rewards credit card offering enhanced earning on travel and dining with flexible Ultimate Rewards redemption options.
• Costco Executive Membership: Costco’s premium membership tier offering 2% annual reward on qualifying Costco purchases plus additional benefits and exclusive offers.
• Delta Reserve Amex Card: a premium co-branded credit card offering Delta elite status benefits, Sky Club access, and enhanced earning on Delta purchases and travel.
• Fidelity Rewards Visa Signature Card: a straightforward rewards credit card offering 2% cash back on all purchases that can be deposited directly into Fidelity investment accounts.
• Robinhood Gold Card: a cash back credit card integrated with Robinhood’s investment platform, offering 3% cash back on select categories and investment-focused benefits.
• Southwest Airlines Companion Pass: Southwest’s premier membership benefit allowing a designated companion to fly free (minus taxes and fees) on all Southwest flights for qualifying members.
• US Bank Four Percent Cash Back Card: a high-yield cash back credit card offering 4% cash back on select categories, though availability and terms may have changed or been discontinued.

Concepts

• Four Percent Rule (Retirement withdrawal strategy): a retirement planning guideline suggesting that retirees can safely withdraw 4% of their portfolio annually, adjusted for inflation, without running out of money over a 30-year period.
• Arbitrage: the practice of taking advantage of price differences between markets to buy and sell identical or similar financial instruments simultaneously for risk-free profit.
• Cash Back Rewards: a credit card benefit that returns a percentage of purchase amounts to cardholders as cash, typically ranging from 1% to 5% depending on spending categories.
• Coast FI / Coast FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early concept): a variation of FIRE where individuals have saved enough that compound growth will fund their retirement without additional contributions, allowing them to “coast” with lower savings rates.
• Dunning-Kruger Effect: a cognitive bias where people with limited knowledge or competence in a domain overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain.
• FICO Score: the most widely used credit scoring model in the United States, ranging from 300 to 850, used by lenders to assess creditworthiness and loan risk.
• Fisherman Parable: a parable about work-life balance where a businessman advises a fisherman to expand his business, only to learn the fisherman already enjoys the lifestyle the businessman is working toward.
• FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) Movement: a lifestyle movement focused on extreme savings and investing to achieve financial independence and early retirement, typically by saving 50-70% of income.
• Interchange Fees: transaction fees that merchants pay to card-issuing banks when customers use credit or debit cards, typically ranging from 1.5% to 3.5% of the transaction amount.
• Loyalty Programs / Points & Miles: marketing strategies that reward customers for repeat business through points, miles, or other benefits that can be redeemed for products, services, or travel.
• Memory Dividends: Bill Perkins’ concept that experiences create lasting memories that continue to provide value and happiness long after the money spent, unlike financial dividends.
• Money Rules: Ramit Sethi’s personal finance philosophy emphasizing automation, conscious spending on things you love, and cutting costs ruthlessly on things you don’t care about.
• Net Fulfillment vs. Net Worth: Bill Perkins’ framework suggesting that maximizing life fulfillment and experiences should take priority over simply accumulating wealth, especially in later years.
• Optimizer’s Curse: a cognitive bias where people who extensively research and optimize decisions often end up less satisfied with outcomes due to inflated expectations and analysis paralysis.
• Orthorexia: a term that describes an obsession with eating healthy food. It comes from the Greek words ortho, meaning ‘correct’ and orexis, meaning ‘appetite’.
• Trough of Sorrow: a startup development phase characterized by declining initial enthusiasm, user engagement challenges, and the difficult period between launch excitement and sustainable growth.
• VantageScore: an alternative credit scoring model developed by the three major credit bureaus, ranging from 300 to 850, designed to compete with FICO scores in credit assessment.

Legislation & Government Entities/Programs

• Credit Card Competition Act: proposed federal legislation aimed at increasing competition in the credit card processing market by requiring large banks to offer multiple payment network options beyond Visa and Mastercard.
• Crypto GENIUS Act: proposed federal legislation designed to establish a comprehensive regulatory framework for cryptocurrency and blockchain technology, providing clarity for businesses and consumers in the digital asset space.
• US Mint $1 Coin Program: various United States Mint programs that have produced commemorative and circulating dollar coins, including the Presidential $1 Coin Program and American Innovation $1 Coin Program.

Podcasts

• All the Hacks with Chris Hutchins
• Point Me To First Class with Devon Gimbel
• The Peter Attia Drive Podcast

People

• Mike Tyson
• Kevin Rose
• Tom Hanks
• Marie Kondo
• Dave Phillips
• Brad Wilson
• J. Kyle Bass
• Chris Sacca
• Chad Janis
• Hannah Janis
• Bill Perkins
• Devon Gimbel
• Amy Fox
• John Arnold
• Peter Attia
• Sahil Bloom
• Morgan Housel
• Arthur C. Brooks
• Mark Sundeen
• Daniel Suelo
• Ramit Sethi

Relevant Resources

• How I Built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ Million Downloads — An Immersive Explanation of All Aspects and Key Decisions (Featuring Chris Hutchins) | The Tim Ferriss Show #538
• Gift Card Deals and Secrets That Will Save You $5k+/yr with Logan Robinson | All the Hacks
• Cool Tools for Travel — Tim Ferriss and Kevin Kelly | The Tim Ferriss Show #247
• The Gold Market: Strategies for Investing and Reselling with Trey Benedict | All the Hacks
• Best Award Search Tools for Booking Flights with Points & Miles with Greg the Frequent Miler | All the Hacks
• Why Airlines Can’t Survive Without Loyalty Programs | WSJ Case Study
• The Path to Becoming an Expert in Points & Miles with Devon Gimbel | All the Hacks
• ‘Pudding Guy’ Asks: ‘Who Wants to Be a Mileage Millionaire?’ | UC Davis
• Meet the Genius Who Earned 4,000,000 Airline Miles by Buying $1 Coins from the US Mint’s Website | Luxury Launches
• Kyle Bass’s Big Nickel Bet | Moneyness
• A Shabby Chic Wedding at Alpine Mountain Ranch & Club in Steamboat Springs, Colorado | The Knot
• Topic No. 420, Bartering Income | Internal Revenue Service
• Chris Sacca on Being Different and Making Billions | The Tim Ferriss Show #79
• Diggnation Live in Austin Texas: Old Rivals, New Vision | Diggnation
• Planning the Best Japan Trip Ever with Brandon Pressor | All the Hacks
• Financial Case Study: Hannah and Chad, Wall Street Minimalists | Professional Hobo
• Deep Dive on Credit Reports, Scores, and Their Real-World Impact | All the Hacks
• Die With Zero: Net Fulfillment Over Net Worth with Bill Perkins | All the Hacks
• John Arnold: The Most Prolific Philanthropist You May Not Have Heard Of | The Peter Attia Drive

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Curses! COVID again. (Start.)
• [00:00:32] Meet Chris Hutchins: master of All the Hacks.
• [00:06:22] Coping with a Frankenstein’s Monster of travel points.
• [00:10:27] How did Chris become obsessed with the art of arbitrage?
• [00:12:18] Flipping gift cards for fun and profit.
• [00:17:17] The mechanics of Costco gold arbitrage.
• [00:22:31] Using AwardTool for finding point deals.
• [00:25:19] Daydream exploring with PointsYeah.
• [00:27:27] Why do modern airlines rely on loyalty programs to survive?
• [00:33:22] Chris maps out the different kinds of points and how to optimize them.
• [00:36:22] My inner struggle: hoard vs. spend.
• [00:37:55] Creative uses for large point balances.
• [00:41:20] Cash back card alternatives.
• [00:44:14] Chris analyzes the value of my 12 million Amex points.
• [00:46:23] 200 hotel nights or 150 business class flights?
• [00:48:47] Seat availability challenges and alert rebooking strategies.
• [00:55:33] Making use of smaller airline point balances.
• [00:58:57] Non-travel uses for points.
• [01:02:26] Strategies for expiring points.
• [01:06:12] Flexible booking for maximum value.
• [01:07:12] Using Seats.aero for a Lufthansa first class and Frankfurt terminal experience.
• [01:10:45] Using Rooms.aero to find surprise hotel deals around the world.
• [01:11:51] Point strategies gone wrong and the optimizer’s curse.
• [01:14:36] Using Points Path with Google Flights to decide if a trip is worth the points.
• [01:15:30] The Dunning-Kruger curve of points hacking.
• [01:18:13] Escaping the optimization trap: when frugality becomes a burden.
• [01:21:33] What I could have done differently with my reward cards.
• [01:24:28] Points arbitrage: buying vs. earning.
• [01:27:01] Optimal reward cards for small business owners.
• [01:28:07] Status benefits and Southwest’s companion pass.
• [01:32:05] Pudding cups, $1 coins, and other heartwarming arbitrage tales.
• [01:36:47] How Chris saved $11,000 on his wedding by bartering with points.
• [01:38:53] Using points for employee/family gifts and business benefits.
• [01:42:09] How Chris would optimize point resources in my shoes.
• [01:45:16] The joy (and livelihood) Chris gets from sharing a day in his life.
• [01:46:57] Pondering AI’s future impact on travel, point optimization, regulatory changes, and itinerary planning.
• [01:53:56] Hotel relationship building through direct communication.
• [01:57:01] Insider restaurant hacks.
• [01:58:05] Credit card signup bonuses and credit score impact.
• [02:00:31] Card closure strategy and credit history preservation.
• [02:03:35] Amex Platinum Card evaluation and optimization.
• [02:06:12] Using government-sanctioned Annualcreditreport.com to monitor your credit report.
• [02:08:49] Spousal credit card strategy: doubling bonuses.
• [02:10:24] Chris’ travel enjoyment philosophy and spending mindset.
• [02:13:36] Paying cash vs. points at the Four Seasons Lanai.
• [02:15:08] Learning how to spend money as a frugal person.
• [02:17:28] High-quality experiences over extreme optimization.
• [02:18:38] Die with Zero: Bill Perkins and the money timing game.
• [02:21:14] Coast FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early).
• [02:22:38] Recommended reading for developing a conscious, fulfilling relationship with money.
• [02:25:47] The limits of universal financial advice.
• [02:29:48] Chris’ potential alternative career paths.
• [02:32:09] The fisherman parable and contentment.
• [02:33:17] Parting thoughts.

MORE CHRIS HUTCHINS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“I’ve always been thinking in the back of my head, ‘How do I do the thing that everyone else with all this money and all these resources does? How do I get to do that, even though I don’t have the resources?’ So that’s been my MO for life: I don’t want to sacrifice, but I also don’t want to go into debt or just spend money I don’t have.”
— Chris Hutchins

“Sometimes it just feels good to take a free trip. Who cares if it’s a good deal? You went on a trip you weren’t going to take otherwise.”
— Chris Hutchins

“Everyone listening should not be getting less than two points or two percent on any transaction, because you’re just giving money away.”
— Chris Hutchins

“There’s something fun about knowing you kind of ‘got one’ over the system.”
— Chris Hutchins

“I’m not going to let an AI book my travel, but I might let it do some exploration.”
— Chris Hutchins

“If you think too much about money, you just lose sight of the fact that money is a tool to help you achieve things. And if you don’t have any, it’s a really important tool, but as you have more, sometimes it just becomes a thing that you focus on way too much. And if you can learn to be happy with whatever you have, you might not need to chase. And that chasing is so toxic.”
— Chris Hutchins

The post Chris Hutchins, Deal Master — Helping Tim Burn 15M+ Miles and Points, Flipping Costco Gold Into Five-Star Trips, Flying to Japan for $222, Tech Tools and Tricks, and Avoiding The Optimizer’s Curse (#815) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.

Chatri Sityodtong, CEO of ONE Championship — From Dirt Poor to Top-10 Sports-Media Franchise, The $100M Breakfast, Dominating Social Media (30B+ Views/Year), Key Strategic Decisions, and The Moneyball of Fight Matchmaking (#814)

2025-06-05 22:17:24

“Suffering is a path to our greatness.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

Chatri Sityodtong (@yodchatri) is the founder and CEO of ONE (you might know it as ONE Championship), one of the top-10 biggest sports-media properties in the world in terms of viewership and engagement (alongside the NBA, Formula One, Champions League, and Premier League), with a global broadcast reach to 195 countries. 

The largest sports-media property in Asia, ONE is also a celebration of Asia’s great cultural treasure martial arts. Chatri himself has more than 40 years of martial arts experience. He is a certified senior Muay Thai instructor under the legendary Kru Yodtong Senanan, and he holds a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under Master Renzo Gracie. In 2019, he was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame.

Chatri holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BA from Tufts University.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the interview on YouTube. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement; Helix Sleep premium mattresses; and Wealthfront high-yield cash account.

This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront! Wealthfront is a financial services platform that offers services to help you save and invest your money. Right now, you can earn 4.00% APY—that’s the Annual Percentage Yield—with the Wealthfront Brokerage Cash Accoount. That’s nearly 10x more interest than if you left your money in a savings account at the average bank, with savings rates at 0.42%, according to FDIC.gov, as of 05/19/2025. It takes just a few minutes to sign up, and then you’ll immediately start earning 4.00% APY from program  banks on your uninvested cash. And when new clients open an account today, they’ll get an extra $50 bonus with a deposit of $500 or more. Terms and Conditions apply.  Visit Wealthfront.com/Tim to get started.

Cash Account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA/SIPC. Wealthfront is not a bank. The APY on cash deposits as of 04/30/2025, is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds in the Cash Account are swept to program banks, where they earn a variable APY. Tim receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. Tim and Wealthfront Brokerage have no other affiliation. Tim reflects his own opinions and Wealthfront does not endorse, sponsor, or promote them. See full disclosures here.

---

This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

I have always admired AG1’s commitment to improving one product over many years, which is why I am excited about their latest upgrade: AG1 Next Gen. It’s the same—but improved—single-scoop, once-a-day product to support your mental clarity, immune health, and energy. Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health.

---

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the best overall mattress of 2024 by Forbes, Fortune, and Wired magazines and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk-free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders at HelixSleep.com/Tim.

---

Want to hear another episode with someone who appreciates a good scrap? Listen to my conversation with former mixed martial artist Bas Rutten, in which we discussed martial arts tradition in the Netherlands, bullies, Pancrase, fighting Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki, underrated Japanese fighters, pranks, self-defense for beginners and bouncers, street fighting, breathing with the O2 Trainer, and much more.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

• Connect with Chatri Sityodtong:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn

• Connect with ONE Championship:

Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | Threads | YouTube | TikTok

Companies, Institutions, and Organizations

• ONE Championship
• Evolve MMA
• Sityodtong Camp/Gym
• Fairtex Gym
• Harvard University
• NextDoor Networks (Chatri’s first startup)
• Kaplan
• Shooto
• Pancrase
• Renzo Gracie Academy
• NFL
• NBA
• NASCAR
• MLB
• F1
• UEFA Champions League
• Premier League
• Bundesliga
• UFC
• Yakuza
• University of Tokyo
• Facebook/Meta
• Sequoia Capital
• Rippledot Capital
• CAA (Creative Artists Agency)
• Amazon Prime Video
• Sky Sports
• ESPN
• Milken Institute
• Pride Fighting Championships
• K-1
• Qatar Investment Authority
• Singapore Government
• Nielsen
• Toyota
• Shopify
• Pixar
• Spotify
• Marcelo Garcia Jiu-Jitsu
• Middlebury Language School

Books and Magazines

• One Up On Wall Street: How to Use What You Already Know to Make Money in the Market by Peter Lynch
• The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing by Benjamin Graham
• The Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum
• Tao of Jeet Kune Do: New Expanded Edition by Bruce Lee
• The 32 Principles: Harnessing the Power of Jiu-Jitsu to Succeed in Business, Relationships, and Life by Rener Gracie
• High Output Management by Andy Grove
• Creativity, Inc.: Overcoming the Unseen Forces That Stand in the Way of True Inspiration by Ed Catmull
• Kakuto-Gi Tsushin

Martial Arts Disciplines

• Muay Thai
• Boxing
• Wrestling
• Jiu-Jitsu (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu / BJJ)
• Judo
• Sanchou / Sanshou / Sanda
• Kickboxing
• Karate
• Aikido
• Kendo
• Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)
• Submission Grappling
• Lethwei

Events & Competitions

• All-Japan Judo Championships (Held at the Budokan)
• Pancrase: Bas Rutten vs. Masakatsu Funaki, 1996
• The Super Bowl
• The Olympic Games
• FIFA World Cup
• Extreme Fighting Championship (EFC)
• Renzo Gracie vs. Oleg Taktarov
• ADCC (Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Wrestling World Championship)

People

• Kru Yodtong Senanan
• Bunkerd Fairtex
• Anh Fairtex
• Jongsanan Fairtex
• Thaworn Trisiripisal
• Michiyo Komatsu
• Takeru Segawa
• Rodtang Jitmuangnon
• Peter Lynch
• Warren Buffett
• Benjamin Graham
• Soon Loo
• Richard Armstrong
• Renzo Gracie
• Bas Rutten
• Masakatsu Funaki
• Satoru Sayama
• Rodrigo Gracie
• Rumina Sato
• Kazuhiro Sakamoto
• Mike Moritz
• Douglas Leone
• Mark Zuckerberg
• Matt Hume
• Rich Franklin
• Tye Ruotolo
• Kade Ruotolo
• Floyd Mayweather
• Rocky Balboa
• Stamp Fairtex
• Naomi Osaka
• Roelof Botha
• Shailendra Singh
• Atin Kukreja
• Bill Gates
• Fabian Stechel
• Hassan Al-Thawadi
• Demetrious Johnson
• Andy Grove
• Rener Gracie
• Bruce Lee
• Nick Vujicic
• Ed Catmull
• Tang Kai
• Oleg Taktarov
• Kazushi Sakuraba
• Ernesto Hoost
• Saenchai
• Fedor Emelianenko
• Ramon Dekkers
• Rob Kaman
• Jonathan Haggerty
• Liam Harrison
• Nadaka Yoshinari
• Mike Tyson
• Muhammad Ali
• Wanderlei Silva
• Quinton “Rampage” Jackson
• Marcelo Garcia
• Josh Waitzkin
• Dana White

Places

• Singapore
• Thailand
• Bangkok, Thailand
• Lumpinee Stadium
• Rajadamnern Stadium
• Pattaya, Thailand
• United States
• Silicon Valley, California
• New York City, New York
• Morris Hall, Harvard University
• Albuquerque, New Mexico
• Japan
• Tokyo, Japan
• Saitama Super Arena
• Nippon Budokan
• Denver, Colorado
• Ball Arena
• Impact Arena
• Qatar
• Doha, Qatar
• Philippines
• Manila, Philippines
• China
• Bang Phli, Thailand
• Abu Dhabi, UAE

Relevant Resources

• Chatri’s Triumphant Tale of Overcoming Adversity Detailed in New Short Biopic ‘I Am a Warrior’ | The Nation
• The Chatri Sityodtong Story | I Am A Warrior
• Buddhist Funeral Customs | Dignity Funerals
• “That’s His Dream” — Chatri Reveals What’s Next for Takeru After Shocking Knockout Loss to Rodtang | Sportskeeda
• ONE 172: Drama Behind the Scenes | ONE Championship
• Hanmen Kyōshi | Wiktionary
• How a Former Hedge Fund Manager Launched One Championship, an MMA Promotion Pushing Into the US | Forbes
• Bushido | Wikipedia
• Yamato Damashii – The Spirit of Japan and Kyokushin Karate | The Martial Way
• The Birth of a Martial Arts Revolution | Chatri Sityodtong
• Exclusive: Chatri Sityodtong on Showcasing “Real-Life Superheroes” at ONE 168 | Sports Illustrated
• Learn How to Calculate the Total Addressable Market (TAM) | CFI
• This CEO Says He Only Hires PhDs, But Not the PhDs You’re Thinking Of | Inc.
• ONE Championship Raises US Profile | The Japan Times
• Three Reasons Why Floyd Mayweather’s 50–0 Record Cannot Be Broken in Boxing History | EssentiallySports
• Six Sigma | Wikipedia
• Rock ‘Em Sock Em Robots | Amazon
• Measure Your Striking Power with Cutting-Edge Precision | PowerKube
• How to Increase Your Luck Surface Area | Codus Operandi
• G-SHOCK | CASIO
• How Will You Be Remembered? | Chatri Sityodtong
• Broadcast TV Reach of Global Sports Properties | Instagram
• ONE Featherweight World Champion Tang Kai | Instagram
• RE: Deep Fake Scams on Social Media | Twitter
• The Marcelotine by Marcelo Garcia | BJJ Fanatics

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:06:49] Chatri Trisiripisal vs. Yodchatri Sityodtong
• [00:08:35] My own experience with Muay Thai.
• [00:10:05] Chatri’s introduction to Muay Thai.
• [00:10:58] Chatri processes the strained relationship with his father.
• [00:17:28] Fight Porn and my introduction to ONE.
• [00:18:56] A pep talk in Japanese.
• [00:23:00] Chatri’s secret life in a Harvard dorm with his mother on $4 a day.
• [00:30:11] How Chatri made the money to fuel his martial arts ambitions.
• [00:35:19] Why wealth has never provided Chatri with a sense of security.
• [00:38:43] The moment Chatri began to fulfill one his mother’s prophecies.
• [00:41:08] “To unleash your greatness, you must be surrounded by greatness.”
• [00:44:56] Witnessing Yamato-damashii: the Japanese warrior spirit.
• [00:48:43] Moving to Singapore and starting Evolve.
• [00:51:59] Overcoming ONE’s initial financial challenges.
• [01:03:06] Building ONE with Bushido-grade excellence.
• [01:08:25] How ONE maintains quality and quantity fights and fighters.
• [01:16:05] Leveraging social media to bring compelling human stories to ONE’s forefront.
• [01:26:40] Chatri’s $100 million breakfast with Sequoia Capital.
• [01:41:42] Making deals with CAA’s Fabian Stechel.
• [01:45:13] A serendipitous meeting that resulted in investment from Qatar.
• [01:47:51] Changing lives and building relationships across generations with martial arts.
• [01:51:35] Recommended reading and admirable storytellers.
• [02:01:03] A gracious invitation.
• [02:02:39] Where in the world is ONE enjoyed most?
• [02:07:14] Dealing with AI development and deep fakes.
• [02:08:45] Global broadcasting business from behind the scenes.
• [02:16:31] Funds raised and the competitive benefits of being early in the game.
• [02:19:30] Fond regards for Renzo Gracie.
• [02:23:49] Legendary fighters we would love to witness in their prime.
• [02:26:27] High marks for Marcelo Garcia.
• [02:29:23] How I learned what Chatri calls “flawless” Japanese.
• [02:31:16] Chatri’s billboard and parting thoughts.

MORE CHATRI SITYODTONG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Suffering is a path to our greatness.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

“You never know what is good luck or bad luck until many years later, when you discover what the lessons were of that experience.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

“If you’re fighting for yourself — you’re fighting because you want a six-figure salary, you’re fighting because you want to buy a nice car — it’s very easy to quit. But when you’re fighting for something bigger than yourself, it’s impossible to quit.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

“I truly believe my grandmaster, Kru Yodtong Senanan, who used to always tell me — I never really understood it until much later in life — ‘To unleash your greatness, you must be surrounded by greatness.'”
— Chatri Sityodtong

“In society, I’m a CEO, but when I’m in training, I’m a nobody. These guys beat on me, but it levels me up. It’s a daily reminder to me that I’m here to learn, grow, and evolve and be the very best martial artist I can be.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

“Love, pain, and suffering. That combination can work magic in terms of unleashing human potential. You will discover things about yourself that you never even knew existed in you.”
— Chatri Sityodtong

The post Chatri Sityodtong, CEO of ONE Championship — From Dirt Poor to Top-10 Sports-Media Franchise, The $100M Breakfast, Dominating Social Media (30B+ Views/Year), Key Strategic Decisions, and The Moneyball of Fight Matchmaking (#814) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.

Q&A with Tim — Three Life Commandments, 4-Hour Workweek Exercises I Still Use, The Art and Joy of Inefficiency, Stoicism Revisited, and Much More (#813)

2025-05-30 22:13:51

Welcome back to another in-between-isode, with one of my favorite formats: the good old-fashioned Q&A.

I answer questions submitted by the small-but-elite group of test readers of my upcoming THE NO BOOK. The community is closed for new members, as we have the right number of people now, but I hope to potentially expand it once the book comes out. 

This episode explores everything from childhood nostalgia and the outdoor activities I’d want to share with future kids to what my personal, highly comfortable, cult uniforms might look like if I were ever so inclined—don’t worry, I’m not. We also cover how I work with AI, Stoicism, tools from The 4-Hour Workweek that I still use, and much, much more.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Audible, or on your favorite podcast platform. Watch the Q&A on YouTube. The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

This episode is brought to you by Monarch Money track, budget, plan, and do more with your money; Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating; and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement.

This episode is brought to you by Monarch Money! Traditional budgeting apps can help, but they don’t compare to the complete financial command center you get with this episode’s sponsor, Monarch Money. Monarch is like your own personal CFO, giving you full visibility and control so you can stop merely earning and start growing.

Monarch was named The Wall Street Journal’s Best Budgeting App of 2025, and it’s the top-recommended personal finance app by users and experts, with more than 30,000 5-star reviews. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code TIM at monarchmoney.com/Tim for half off your first year.

---

This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

I have always admired AG1’s commitment to improving one product over many years, which is why I am excited about their latest upgrade: AG1 Next Gen. It’s the same—but improved—single-scoop, once-a-day product to support your mental clarity, immune health, and energy. Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health.

---

This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I’ve suffered for decades, tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling them back on, and repeating ad nauseam. But a few years ago, I started using the Pod Cover, and it has transformed my sleep. Eight Sleep has launched their newest generation of the Pod: Pod 5 Ultra. It cools, it heats, and now it elevates, automatically. With the best temperature performance to date, Pod 5 Ultra ensures you and your partner stay cool in the heat and cozy warm in the cold. Plus, it automatically tracks your sleep time, snoring, sleep stages, and HRV, all with high precision. For example, their heart rate tracking is at an incredible 99% accuracy.

Pod 5 Ultra also introduces an adjustable Base that fits between your mattress and your bed frame to add custom positions for the best sleeping experience. It also automatically reduces your snoring when detected. Add it easily to any bed. And for full coverage, you can include the Blanket, which uses the same technology as the Pod’s Cover to extend temperature regulation over your entire body.

And now, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show can get $350 off of the Pod 5 Ultra for a limited time! Click here to claim this deal and unlock your full potential through optimal sleep.

---

Want to hear a Q&A from the not-too-distant past? Listen here as I discuss reinvention, snacks, intriguing investments, modern dating, personal heresies, incentivizing potential mentors, making room for the irrational, workout routines for older parents, and much more.

---

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Transcript of this episode.
• Transcripts of all episodes.

Tim’s Three Commandments

1. Movement is medicine.
2. To save the self, help outside the self.
3. Request what you want more/less of.

Core Practices from The 4-Hour Workweek

• 80/20 (Pareto Principle): Focus on the 20% of activities that produce 80% of your results.
• Parkinson’s Law: Work expands to fill the time available, so set tight deadlines to force efficiency.
• Fear-Setting: Define your worst-case scenarios in detail to realize most fears are overblown.
• Definition: Clearly specify what you want from life before optimizing how to get it.
• Elimination: Say no to everything that doesn’t serve your defined goals.
• Automation: Create systems that work without your constant involvement.

Personal Projects & Ventures

• The No Book: My first book in more than seven years, and my first collaboration (with Neil Strauss).
• Coyote: My card game in collaboration with Elan Lee and the kind folks at Exploding Kittens.
• COCKPUNCH / Legends of Varlata: My foray into fictional experimentation and exploration.
• Saisei Foundation: My non-profit funding psychedelic science, accelerated TMS, indigenous language/medicine/traditions/land rights, and metabolic psychiatry.
• 5-Bullet Friday: My weekly newsletter.

Books & Other Media

• Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality by Anthony de Mello
• Midnight’s Children: A Novel by Salman Rushdie
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
• I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression by Terry Real
• Running Toward Mystery: The Adventure of an Unconventional Life by Tenzin Priyadarshi and Zara Houshmand
• Gold by Rumi, translated by Haleh Liza Gafori
• The Angels Knocking on the Tavern Door: Thirty Poems of Hafez by Hafez, translated by Robert Bly and Leonard Lewisohn
• Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss: My Life with Terence McKenna by Dennis McKenna
• Trickster Makes This World: Mischief, Myth, and Art by Lewis Hyde
• Brain Energy: A Revolutionary Breakthrough in Understanding Mental Health–and Improving Treatment for Anxiety, Depression, OCD, PTSD, and More by Christopher Palmer
• The NeverEnding Story by Michael Ende
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Timothy Ferriss
• “Slow Dance” by David Weatherford
• The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth Behind Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan
• Mad Max
• The NeverEnding Story (Film)
• Arcane
• Inside the Actors Studio

Concepts

• Stoicism: An ancient Greek and Roman philosophy that teaches virtue, wisdom, and emotional resilience through accepting what you cannot control while focusing your efforts on what you can control.
• Mezcal: A smoky, Mexican distilled spirit made from the agave plant. Delicious, but hard to justify at $72 per glass without warning.
• Sufism: The mystical dimension of Islam that emphasizes direct personal experience of the divine.
• Epicureanism: An ancient Greek philosophy that advocates pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain as the path to happiness, emphasizing simple pleasures, friendship, and freedom from anxiety.
• The Nothing (from The NeverEnding Story): A destructive force that consumes imagination and hope, representing despair and the loss of wonder.
• Vibe Coding: Programming based on intuition and feel rather than strict methodology or documentation.
• Metabolic Psychiatry: Treatment approach viewing mental health disorders as metabolic dysfunction in the brain.
• Ketogenic Diet: High-fat, low-carb eating plan that forces the body to burn fat for fuel instead of glucose.
• Electroceuticals / Accelerated TMS: Medical devices using electrical stimulation to treat conditions, with TMS targeting specific brain regions magnetically.
• Somatic Exercises: Movement practices that focus on internal physical sensations to release tension and trauma stored in the body.
• Kundalini Activation: Spiritual practice aimed at awakening dormant energy believed to reside at the base of the spine.
• Byron Katie’s “The Work” and Turnarounds: Self-inquiry method questioning stressful thoughts through four questions, then reversing beliefs to find opposite perspectives.

Software, Apps, & Tools

• Scrivener: My preferred tool for organizing large writing projects.
• Google Gemini AI: Google’s “personal, proactive, and powerful” AI assistant.
• The Way: Henry Shukman’s meditation training app.

People

• Anthony de Mello: Author of Awareness.
• Neil Strauss: Collaborator.
• Marcus Aurelius: Stoic philosopher.
• Haleh Liza Gafori: Translator of Rumi’s poetry (Gold).
• Jalal al-Din Rumi: Sufi poet.
• Hafez: Sufi poet.
• David Weatherford: Poet of “Slow Dance.”
• Molly Ferriss: My best friend.
• Salman Rushdie: Author of Midnight’s Children.
• Gary Keller: Businessman, co-author of The ONE Thing.
• Terry Real: Therapist, author of I Don’t Want to Talk About It.
• Henry Shukman: Meditation teacher, creator of The Way app.
• Dennis McKenna: Ethnobotanist, author of Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss.
• Terence McKenna: Ethnobotanist, brother of Dennis.
• Lewis Hyde: Author of Trickster Makes This World.
• Richard Branson: Entrepreneur, proponent of capping downside.
• Mark Twain: Titan of American literature.
• Chris Sacca: Investor.
• BJ Miller: Palliative care physician, source of “Don’t believe everything you think.”
• Byron Katie: Creator of “The Work.”
• Nolan Williams: Researcher in electroceuticals.
• Chris Palmer: Proponent of metabolic psychiatry.
• Hatsumi Masaaki: Grandmaster of ninjutsu, possible calligrapher of “nin” (resilience).

SHOW NOTES

• [00:00:00] Start.
• [00:04:44] Instilling nostalgia in future children.
• [00:06:29] Secret suspicions about success.
• [00:09:50] Comfy clothes and commandments for my new cult religion.
• [00:13:20] Laying groundwork for large projects.
• [00:15:12] The purpose of my No Book preview community.
• [00:15:45] How I use and don’t use AI.
• [00:18:56] My own success: because of strategies or despite them?
• [00:19:25] Optimizing efficiency in the face of unknown variables.
• [00:21:12] Why we should all learn how to live offline.
• [00:22:35] Superb Sufism sources.
• [00:23:21] How a podcast episode anticipated to be good can go bad.
• [00:26:31] When inefficiency is the optimal choice.
• [00:31:27] Helping rather than hurting our workaholic friends.
• [00:33:42] The right time to announce a new project.
• [00:37:09] Establishing partnership parameters.
• [00:39:02] Spiritual speculations.
• [00:41:24] Using today’s advantages to build tomorrow’s apps.
• [00:43:23] Keeping audience capture from converting you to caricature.
• [00:46:18] Legends of Varlata vs. The Legend of COCKPUNCH.
• [00:49:28] Hunting for Easter eggs across IPs.
• [00:49:51] Coyote curiosity.
• [00:53:32] 4-Hour Workweek tools I still use regularly.
• [00:55:14] A favorite memory with my childhood best friends.
• [00:55:48] A movie sequel I’d finance.
• [00:56:41] I will (not) sell No book before its time.
• [01:01:37] Archery aims.
• [01:02:13] Inspirational blurbs, billboards, and tchotchkes.
• [01:04:43] Does study of stoicism risk dulling positive emotions?
• [01:07:29] What my Saisei Foundation is focusing on lately.
• [01:13:33] Kundalini activation caution.
• [01:14:17] Molly’s ideal trip with me.
• [01:14:42] Parting thoughts.

The post Q&A with Tim — Three Life Commandments, 4-Hour Workweek Exercises I Still Use, The Art and Joy of Inefficiency, Stoicism Revisited, and Much More (#813) appeared first on The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss.